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ShadowChaser

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    877
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System

  • CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
  • Motherboard
    MSI B550i Gaming Edge Wifi
  • RAM
    SK Hynix 2x16GB 3600mhz
  • GPU
    AMD Reference 6950XT
  • Case
    NCase M1 v6
  • Storage
    HP EX950 2TB
  • PSU
    Corsair SF600 Gold
  • Cooling
    Dual TX240 Custom Loop
  • Keyboard
    Keychron K14
  • Mouse
    MX Master 3

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  1. Breaking down my options and what I personally want in a laptop, it does appear that the FW 13 leads the pack. Funny how that works, right? Daily Use Flow X13 (2021) Flow X13 (iGP) Flow X13 (4070) FW 13 AMD FW 16 (iGP) FW 16 (7700S) CPU 5900HS (+) 7940HS (+) 7940HS (*) 7840U (+) 7840HS (+) 7840HS Memory 16GB DDR4 (-) 16GB DDR5 (*) 32GB DDR5 (+) 32GB DDR5 (+) 64GB DDR5 (+) 64GB DDR5 GPU 3050 Ti (40W) (*) 780M (++) 4070 (60W) (*) 780M (*) 780M (+) 7700S (100W) Display Size 13.4" 16:10 (+) 13.4" 16:10 (+) 13.4" 16:10 (++) 13.5" 3:2 (--) 16" 16:10 (--) 16" 16:10 Display Res. 1200p 167ppi (*) 1200p 167ppi (+) 1600p 225ppi (+) 1504p 201ppi (+) 1600p 189ppi (+) 1600p 189ppi Refresh Rate 120hz (*) 120hz (7ms) (+) 165hz (3ms) (-) 60hz (+) 165hz (9ms) (+) 165hz (9ms) Touch Yes (+) Yes (+) Yes (-) No (-) No (-) No Storage 1TB (-) 512GB (*) 1TB (+) 1TB (++) 1TB (++) 1TB Battery Size 62Whr (+) 75Whr (+) 75Whr (*) 61Whr (+) 85Whr (+) 85Whr USB 4 0x (*) 1x (*) 1x (+) 2x (+) 2x (+) 2x USB A 1x (*) 1x (*) 1x (+) 2x (+) 2x (+) 2x USB C 2x (*) 2x (*) 2x (+) 2x (+) 2x (+) 2x DP/HDMI HDMI (*) HDMI (*) HDMI (+) DP+HDMI (+) DP+HDMI (+) DP+HDMI Weight 1.3kg (+) 1.3kg (+) 1.3kg (+) 1.3kg (*) 2.1kg (-) 2.4kg Sub-score 0 3 9 8 8 8 Servicing Storage 2230 M.2 (*) 2230 M.2 (*) 2230 M.2 --- (*) 2230 M.2 (*) 2230 M.2 Storage --- --- --- (+) 2280 M.2 (+) 2280 M.2 (+) 2280 M.2 WLAN None (+) E Key M.2 (+) E Key M.2 (+) E Key M.2 (+) E Key M.2 (+) E Key M.2 Memory Soldered (-) Soldered (-) Soldered (+) 2x SODIMM (+) 2x SODIMM (+) 2x SODIMM I/O None (*) None (*) None (+) 4 Modules (++) 6 Modules (++) 6 Modules GPU No (*) No (*) No (*) No (+) Yes (+) Yes Dust Fair (*) Fair (*) Fair (*) Fair (-) Poor (-) Poor Sub-score 0 0 0 4 5 5 Other Build Quality Good (+) Good (+) Good (++) Excellent (*) Fair (*) Fair Skin-ability Good (*) Good (*) Good (+) Excellent (+) Excellent (+) Excellent 2-in-1 Yes (+) Yes (+) Yes (*) No (*) No (*) No Fingerprint Yes (-) No (-) No (+) Yes (+) Yes (+) Yes IR Cam No (+) Yes (+) Yes (-) No (-) No (-) No Stylus Yes (*) No (+) Yes --- --- --- Sub-score 0 2 3 3 1 1 SCORE --- 5 12 15 14 14 Price $1,200 $1,100 $2,500 $1,403 $1,877 $2,240 VALUE 0.455 0.480 1.069 0.746 0.625
  2. Batch 5 Pre-order (Barebones with GPU and Expansion Bay) and I'm, like many others, very excited about this laptop. I really hope they address the lack of support in the keyboard deck but if it truly is as easy as shimming with a thermal pad (or something similar) I think I could live with it. I'm still on the fence about it though. Based on the timing of the upcoming batches, this will essentially be a graduation gift for myself as a Bachelor's degree well-earned. I'm expecting to pursue a Master's so I will still need a fairly powerful & portable machine. Thankfully the FW16 looks to be just that. My thoughts are below. Pros: Modularity - 6 user defined ports + ability to add/remove a dGPU is amazing. Solid battery life - I've missed the old days where thin & lights got 12 hours of battery life and this is going in the right direction. Bring your own everything - I'm so happy I can kit this out with 64 or 96 GB of ram and not have to also get a giant SSD with that config or vice versa. Cons: 16" Footprint is huge - I used to daily a 15" thin & light and couldn't live with it in a college setting. 13 and 14 inchers are far more appropriate to me. Panel gaps - I'm sure these will get grimy fast and I hate dealing with little crevices that dust can collect in. Speaker grilles are my worst enemy. Price - the preorder is $2.2k plus another $200 for storage and ram. Over $2.5k after tax. It's funny that the primary contender I'm considering isn't in the same class in just about any metric, except for CPU performance. I've had a Flow X13 for a few years now and my alternative would be to upgrade to the latest iGPU only model because the 780m would be good enough for any gaming I do, but if we're keeping things fair then I should use the one with the 4070 as a comparison since that's $2.5k retail. The X13 checked all the boxes for me personally because it was the only 13" 2-in-1 performance laptop that has good battery life. I'm reasonably certain this is no longer true, however, but the latest version is quite compelling. And it's this apples to oranges comparison that makes choosing one over the other so difficult. Maybe I should just throw in the towel and split the difference by getting a FW 13 AMD edition instead.
  3. There's no real solution for the gpu without installing a vga cooler unfortunately or massively altering the stock heatsink assembly.
  4. To be completely honest you should use one of these: https://www.newegg.com/silver-raijintek-0r100006/p/2T3-0007-00003 Plus some cheapo heatsinks to slap on the memory ICs if you wanted to cool this gpu the way you want to. But for that amount of money you probably could've gotten a better GPU to begin with... such is life.
  5. Noctua 4020s are inaudible - Get about 150W of TGP at 80C Arctic 4038s @5k rpm are drony - Get about 180W of TGP at 80C (This is what I daily drive as F@H rarely needs more power than this) Arctic 4038s @15k rpm are jet engines - Get the full 250W TGP at ~65-70C Originally I got this for some local LLM but 24GB of vram is getting borderline for some of the larger creative writing models and the token generation rate of Pascal is just not it chief. I think I'll be getting something Turing based for inference in the future. In the meantime, this is generating science and keeping my apartment warm
  6. do you have room to attach two 40mm fans on the end? Due to the heatsink design it isn't possible to flow air in the way you've described. The finstack is enclosed at the end that you want to attach fans to. It's harder to describe but if you look through the fins it'll be pretty obvious what I mean. I recently designed this adapter to put dual 40mm fans on my P40. Regular 40mm fans can screw in and deeper fans clip on. When I tried with regular noctua 4020s it is somewhat borderline but with proper server fans it can be cooled but is loud.
  7. not talking about the 5600. That thing sips power and doesn't get hot anyway. The case fans I've had since the very beginning so the $15 or so per fan hardly matters anymore The Tesla is probably 6 or 7 years old and doesn't look like it's been serviced in those years. I have it as supplemental heat since Pascal GPUs don't push as many points in F@H as they used to.
  8. The recent F@H sprints have allowed me to revive my PC of Theseus that has existed in some form since 2019. Currently the only things remaining from the original build are just the fans and case, but it's fun to see this thing still hanging around. The latest iteration is just a mish-mash of spare parts I had laying around to get some extra points and warm up my apartment: CPU: Ryzen 5 5600 Mobo: AsRock B550 PG4 RAM: Corsair Vengeance 2x16GB 2666 GPU0: EVGA RTX 3060Ti FTW3 GPU1: Nvidia Tesla P40 Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 500GB PSU: Revolution D.F. 650W All this built into a Raijintek Ponos and uses Noctua Redux 140 and 120s as case fans. The Tesla P40 has a dual 40mm adapter I designed and is cooled by Arctic 40mm server fans. Pretty pleased with the cable management in this iteration. For a budget case the Ponos is pretty good on cable routing options and that has always come in handy whenever I build in this chassis. I can't quite get the P40 to dissipate more than 200-ish watts without the fans going screamo mode but I haven't repasted it yet. Hopefully that'll allow me to drop a few degrees and let me fun the 40mm fans at a more reasonable rpm. It is living in a hallway where the ambient temperature is about 15C so that does help matters a little
  9. The cold snap hitting us has me considering bringing the Tesla P40 I have back online. An extra 250W might help with the temperature at night as this apartment has terrible insulation only question is what computer to chuck it in and how to cool it since the server that used to house it no longer exists.
  10. 41% on my evga, 50% on an FE. Those numbers roughly point to a minimum tgp of ~100W. Wonder what they tweaked to get GA104M to run at sub 100W and as much as I'd like to also fold on my CPUs the power bill this month is already too high XD
  11. oh yes, I was just using that as an example my nvidia gpus tend to run ~60% of their max power draw so there's not really any point tweaking the PL and stuff but the amd ones tend to run closer to their limits so I will drop it as much as the software will allow.
  12. I would too if most of my computers weren't complete hot boxes. I'd drop my power limit by 20% and call it a day. Miss the days when gpus topped out around 200W
  13. Yeah I just wish that you could edit the v/f curve in afterburner on amd like you can with nvidia. Guess I need to actually learn how to use MPT now
  14. I debated using MPT or not and it looks a little too complicated for a plug and chug sort of operation. Maybe in a few years when I retire this card and try and get as much out of it as I can. I'm not power or thermally restricted in my daily use case but going from 550W total system power down to about 400 without any perceivable performance loss is pretty good in my book. If I do something stupid like trying to stuff this gpu into a Fractal Terra again then maybe I'll invest the time and budget to do it right. Shocking! Jokes aside I dislike running this card at 350W+ but if you use that as a baseline...
  15. I know the 6950XT is pushed a little far beyond the optimal spot on the VF curve so for my daily use I simply dropped the PL by 10% and let it chug away happily at the 255W TGP that results. I got interested in seeing how much further down the VF curve I could go considering that a 10% drop in power is the maximum that AMD supports on this guy compared to the 40%+ on other GPUs. I would be interested in seeing how other 6950XTs compare but I doubt people bought this card just to kneecap it with ridiculous limitations I used Afterburner to make changes though Adrenaline would be fine as well, Time Spy to verify stability, and Furmark (1080p 8xMSAA) to get worst-case power draw. My testing was mostly limited by how much time the Time Spy stress test takes to run as well as how this card simply refuses to run all core loads at lower power (as is to be expected given the original PL limitation) Undervolt Target Clock Power (W) Core Clock Core Voltage Time Spy FPS Avg (20 pass) %diff FPS %diff Power Furmark Power Furmark FPS %diff FPS %diff Power -10PL Stock N/A 255 2235 1006mv 131 --- --- 255 114 --- --- 1080mv 2400 245 2330 956mv 137 4.58 -3.92 272 121 6.14 6.67 1090mv 2300 220 2235 900mv 132 0.76 -13.73 245 117 2.63 -3.92 The baseline is the -10% PL that I have been dailying and so the goal was to match performance while pulling less power. Should be easy, right? My best result had the card running at 2235mhz @ 0.881v but it was borderline unstable so bumping it up to 0.9v cleared things right up. A power reduction of over 30W in a traditional rendering scenario is pretty solid IMHO and even under a torture test it still drew less power than the original power limit change. This GPU really doesn't like to be worked hard under 0.9v I've found. Not sure why that is, perhaps it's so low that the vf curve just falls off. Maybe someone with more knowledge on how AMD's powerplay tables works could educate me on this as I've only really UC/UVed Nvidia GPUs in the past and they tend to be just as happy running at 0.85v as 1.05v.
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