Zemzemma

On 6-8-2016 at 10:49 PM, ElijahDar said:

While you guys been testing games and making videos and forcibly proving/denying the problem to each other, Me and @SpeedUp10  were actually investigating the issue. Please stop testing games and making videos and start researching. For once we actually know what the problem is however the solution or what causing it is unknown.

 

First of all, Please Please and Please stop making general names for this problem. "Texture Flickering" or "Jagged Edges" will only attract people whose problem can be fixed by reinstalling driver or windows or people who wanna prove to us nothing is wrong. 

 

So here is the investigation:

We did a bit of research here and there and found out that this problem is something that is happening once there is a camera motion. meaning that a fixed frame is rendering perfectly. therefore we concluded that this is because of some sort of calculation being run in GPU and is being messed with and it takes a few seconds to re-adjust. After a bit of more researching and cross-solving, we drew some connection to LoD Bias. Now LoD bias is a series of calculations that aid the GPU in rendering each object/texture specific to their location in relation to player. The values being yielded by theses calculation also aids the GPU in draw distance and shadow quality (Depending on Shader being used by the engine). Now the APIs (DirectX, OpenGL, VulkanRT) are responsible for this. So I went after articles written by shader programmers wo use these APIs to specifically find the problem since blaming LoD Bias is again too general (LoD bias has alot of more calculations). So we came to this conclusion that this is actually a really common problem in shader programming and thats why simply searching "Texture Flickering" on google wont get you to this. We tried alot of things, even went for RF Noise or radio interference or testing game enigine based LoD bias. Also a clue that helped was that this is all about shadows. this may also come as bit of shock but shadows are what we should blame the whole thing on, and you maybe say that im crazy why should I blame shadows on jagged edges or popping but bare with me im going to prove why.

 

So guys, to shorten this up, the problem is not one but 3:

 

1. Shadow Acne (Main one)

Another common artifact found in shadow mapping is shadow acne, or erroneous self-shadowing.  This generally occurs when the texel depth in light space and the texel depth in view space are so close that floating point errors incorrectly cause the depth test to fail. There are a few ways to address this issue.  It’s so prevalent, that most graphics APIs provide a means to instantiate a rasterizer state that includes both a depth bias and a slope-scaled depth bias.  Essentially, during shadow map creation, these values are used in combination to offset the current value by a certain amount and push it out of the range where floating point inaccuracies would cause inaccurate comparisons.  One must be careful when setting these bias values.  Too high of a value can cause the next issue to be discussed, peter panning, while too low of a value will still let acne artifacts creep back.

 

2. Peter Panning

It’s frustrating when introducing a fix for one thing breaks something else.  That’s exactly what we can potentially end up with when we use depth biases for shadow maps.  Peter Panning is caused by offsetting the depth values in light space too much.  The result is that the shadow becomes detached from the object casting it. Sometimes the depth bias is so large that it pushes the shadow away from the caster, causing them to appear as though they could be floating. 

 

3. Perspective Aliasing

These types of artifacts are perhaps the simplest to alleviate.  Stair-like artifacts outlining the projected shadows are generally caused by the resolution of the shadow map being too low. Unfortunately, increasing the resolution will only get us so far.  Even at high resolutions, if the viewer is close enough to the receiving surface, tiny stair-like artifacts will still be noticeable along the edges of projected shadows.  The solution to this is to use a technique called percentage closer filtering (PCF).  Instead of sampling at one location, this algorithm samples several points around the initial location, weighs the results that are shadowed versus non-shadowed, and creates soft edges for the result. 

 

TL;DR Stop looking for proofs and videos and game problems and start looking for a fix for Shadow Acne. Trust me when I say this. You fix Shadow Acne your problems will be solved forever. How to fix it? that's the million dollar question.

Damn bro, you really did your research

2 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

How is your rma going?

nothin in yet

Who? Me?

this is one amazing way of problem solving, aint it? Argueing with each other like it gonn do something. Yall finished r yall done?

1 hour ago, SpeedUp10 said:

Just one question to take this theory out completly.

 

Does building a completly NEW computer , i mean everything, with Monitor, mice  etc fix this problem? I mean if its not the electricy what we are actually sure about, why wouldnt that not fix the problem? There is actually no sense at all this wouldnt fix it? So did really ANYBODY tried that? changing EVERYTHING at SAME TIME? without succes? Because i cant belive that,  no lie pls , just serious. Because what I did what changing everything one by one, and not completly at the same time , which doesnt fixed it.

Hey, rmaed my pc. The are going to replace it all. Now, i got a spare mouse and keyboard laying around, and i can connect it to a friends monitor. Ill tell you about the results. Oh, and about the ps3... i thought it started looking bad after i got my pc in, but i was wrong... the game looked bad the whole time, bit i was just used to it.

11 minutes ago, KenjiD5 said:

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█░░█ █░░█ 　 　 　 　 █▀▀ █░▀█ █░▀█ ▀▀█ █▀ █▀ █▀ 
▀░░▀ ▀▀▀▀ 　 　 　 　 ▀▀▀ ▀▀▀▀ ▀▀▀▀ ▀▀▀ ▄░ ▄░ ▄░

What?

4 hours ago, TSRBINO38 said:

Hey guys, let me give a little advice.  Quit talking about individual games.  Quit talking about individual GPUs. You obviously haven't taken the time to read any of the other forums talking about this exact same thing. This is exactly how the other forums got derailed and no one takes them seriously.  And for fuck sake, stop talking about creepy stories about how people are stalking you or whatever.  How do you expect anyone to take this seriously?  This shouldn't be treated as a chat room.  Only comment if u have something constructive to contribute.  If I didn't have this problem and stumbled onto this forum by chance the minute I read your little stories about stalkers or read about how you're comparing your bf4 graphics I would write this whole thing off as bullshit.

Look, we are just trying to keep our hope. This topic will be abandoned in about 1 week if everyone stopped 'telling stories'. But how much research have you done? Instead of complaining tell us about your theory/research. 

3 hours ago, KenjiD5 said:

well we dont have a solution yet... we are just entertaining each other by telling some stories or telling how your game graphics look like.. if we will do that... if we will search and search for solution and stop talking in here.. i think next year this would be a abandoned topic if we do that.. so NO!! we wont stop chatting here.. if this became a abandoned topic then how are the guys going to find this topic then? the guys with the solution that will help? what you WANT TO FEEL ALONE!? i mean not talking about this problem is like keeping a dark secret to yourself.. you want to play your games and dont talk about the graphics? then it feels like your the only one having these problems if you do that.. i mean yes you want a 'proper' solution right now but we dont have anything right now.. we have the one "unknown" solution that is the ups + stabilizer but @iiNNeX said it wont work so we have to slightly scrap that idea but if you really want to know if there is a solution then try to buy or borrow ups + stabilizer and try it at your house and tell us if it will work or not so if not then we can "FULLY" scrap that idea

I really agree with the 'keeping a dark secret' one. Every morning i wake up with the urge to game, but than i realise i cant. Fuck this, 4 real tho

1 hour ago, SpeedUp10 said:

Germany but this isnt a local problem im seeing threads in russia and other countries suffering from the same issue without a fix

hmmm, but i think we share the same sockets. Now this problem isnt exactly impossible. According to my dad, the power could some how fuck up in the psu, which can fuck up some of the gpus performance. Now my dad hasnt done any research about this issue, and just thought that would be the most logical problem. 

Here i have a theory.

The power goes through the fusebox (i have a older model according to the electricity company). After that the cables bring the  power upstairs, to my room. Now i think that i over stressed one off my sockets, because i have my pc, tv and overpowered and pretty old amplifier connected to it. I think that when the socket got all messed up, everything i connected to it got the exact same problem as my pc. (Not my phone, but laptop and ps3 suffer quiete a bit) 

Now my ps3 didnt have any real anti aliasing problems, before i put it in the socket i think i fucked up. Right when i connected my ps3 to the broke socket (idk how to call it) shit hit the fan.

The problem is annoying, but now its just getting interesting and challenging. 

Finding a fix for this problem will be a huge amount of accomplishement, and boy im addicted to accomplishement. So well... lets see if my theory is any good. 

( i know there is about 1% real logic in my theory, but every way of logical- problem-diagnosing resulted in a waste of money and time)

39 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

Didnt u RMAed ur pc?

7 hours ago, KenjiD5 said:

i am that handsome.. maybe if one of these stalkers reach me and talk to me they would say this "Boy your so handsome welcome to the showbusiness your now our new model"..

 

 

 

anyway we have problems to solve so buckle up.. i hope you can survive playing with your games i mean we all have to play our games even with these problems so try to game now okay  

Just asking, but what continent/ country are you guys from. Me myself am from the netherlands, but we might be from the same country, making this a local problem. 

33 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

Didnt u RMAed ur pc?

Which gives me even more evidence that this is a power problem, i mean i dont have the most powerfull laptop in the world, but i have never had aa problems like now. 

32 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

Didnt u RMAed ur pc?

I did, but my laptop is suffering from the exact same problem. 

5 hours ago, KenjiD5 said:

i am that handsome.. maybe if one of these stalkers reach me and talk to me they would say this "Boy your so handsome welcome to the showbusiness your now our new model"..

 

 

 

anyway we have problems to solve so buckle up.. i hope you can survive playing with your games i mean we all have to play our games even with these problems so try to game now okay  

I tried a emulator today, with pokemon go for god sake.  The anti aliasing was extremely bad. Shit was pretty much unplayable. The only games i can really play are battlefield 4 and gmod. So im planning on playing some good old pokemon (all of it, ruby, saphire, black, whatever)

14 minutes ago, KenjiD5 said:

Well since we have no proper solution yet im going to tell this story of mine happened this 2016 while i was searching for some cokes and snacks cause im going to play videogames whole night

 

it was around 9 pm and it is my hobby to go outside at the dark so there is less people and not much populated and since i was walking around with no pockets in my pants and no bag or anything.. i go inside shops and they dont entertain me cause they know i wont buy anything.. it was getting dark so i have to go home then i get to my bike and start going home.. the distance is foggy and it was dark and there was no cars passing by so i decided to take the whole road.. (sorry for bad english) then i realized my tires are flat so i decided to get off my bike and check it.. it was flat and i decided to just take my bike and walk my way home.. it was a foldable bike so.. im close to my house and i turn back to check if there is car going to pass by cause i was walking in the middle of the road..  what i saw is a different thing.. its a thugs or gangsters you may say.. 1 tall and 2 short.. i didnt care much and i keep walking but i walk fast so they wont get close to me..  i look back again for the second time.. this time they are whispering to each others and looking at me.. it is like they have something to do with me.. so i keep walking but faster than before.. i saw a car pass by.. i look at the car reflection.. shit they are behind me.. i flopping decided to walk faster but they didnt walk faster they just walk normally but still going after me.. now there are 2 roads.. one to the left and one to the right.. my house was to the left so i decided to go to the right cause i dont want these thugs to know where i live.. they still follow me but now they cross the road and walk on the other side... i run now and i think they did not notice me cause they keep looking to each other and it is my time to hide in the dark alley..i then crouch and hide beside a trashcan.. a big trashcan you know the green one.. i wait for them to pass by... but i did not see them.. there is a mirror in the ground and i decided to put it in the ground again  i just put it there perfectly.. trying to reflect if there is a guy beside this alley... there is... the thugs.. they are waiting for me to go out or they are going to do some drug business.. they take something from their pocket.. the tall take a drug from his pocket and the 2 other short thugs take a money from their pocket.. but why arent they doing this here in the dark alley? then suddenly a cop car pass by and stop at the middle of the road and i heard the thugs run away and the cops chase them.. the one cop go to search in the alley.. i knew i would be in trouble because the cop might think im one of those thugs so i decided to pull the trashcan and hide in the back of the trashcan and run my way home with my bike of course.. the cop did not even notice me and i keep running about 8 mins on my way home.. i was tired and that is a long night i may say.. 

boiii, u always being stalked

1 minute ago, SpeedUp10 said:

If u going to pay money to fix that Issue, why arent u go for the UPS+Stabilizer Theory? I mean if its not working u could just sent it back.

cuz i had to buy these things any way. i need a new tv and a ps3 (my ps3 is acting weird, so why not buy a new one, and im not talking about aa problems, but the things harddrive is broke af.) Btw, i study in IT so i think ill be able to test some shit at school. I can connect to a 5ghz connection, on the modem at school. this way ill be able to tell if its a internet problem or nah. 

4 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

I really feel the same about it , its really frustrating, at the start of this problemen is was really in depression , like why the fk is this happening, how is that even possible, i dont understand that. Everytime i see people playing normally i just wanted the same, but for us with rly good builds ,gameplay looking completly bullshit happened from nowhere, driving us crazy. I wasted to many hours days/weeks to fix that shit but it isnt in our hands, its not just a setting or whatever, its crazy bullshit .

i havent gamed for 2 weeks or so by now. im just sitting here messing with virtual machines and shit. :(((

2 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

I really feel the same about it , its really frustrating, at the start of this problemen is was really in depression , like why the fk is this happening, how is that even possible, i dont understand that. Everytime i see people playing normally i just wanted the same, but for us with rly good builds ,gameplay looking completly bullshit happened from nowhere, driving us crazy. I wasted to many hours days/weeks to fix that shit but it isnt in our hands, its not just a setting or whatever, its crazy bullshit .

doesnt matter how long its going to take me, ill find a way to fix this fucking problem

14 hours ago, ElijahDar said:

Guys, I've been doing a research the past days. The only thing I found that was close to my kind of problem was the LOD Bias stuff. I know this is an old theory and it doesn't make sense why would system mess with the LOD Bias given the fact that changing parts and nuking partitions wont fix it. But for me it's definitely LOD Bias. I suggest you guys try this as well. It wont hurt. just remember to post screen shots of your test. Im gonna start with mine:

Download "D3D AF Tester" and play with LOD Bias (Take it to -8) and post a screenshot. also post your generated mipband. Please help me research this.

 

Heres Mine:

i dont know what u meant with mipmap, but well.... i got this

14 hours ago, ElijahDar said:

Guys, I've been doing a research the past days. The only thing I found that was close to my kind of problem was the LOD Bias stuff. I know this is an old theory and it doesn't make sense why would system mess with the LOD Bias given the fact that changing parts and nuking partitions wont fix it. But for me it's definitely LOD Bias. I suggest you guys try this as well. It wont hurt. just remember to post screen shots of your test. Im gonna start with mine:

Download "D3D AF Tester" and play with LOD Bias (Take it to -8) and post a screenshot. also post your generated mipband. Please help me research this.

 

Heres Mine:

13 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

 Well, but many people tried that aswell but I hope the best for u, but like i said ur phone is fine. But before u plug ur Ps3 or Tv/ pc   into ur house u may try it first at ur friend? Also dont connect to ur internet so we can see if its internet related.

yeah, my phone is fine, so ill be crossing that one off my list. But the tv, pc and ps3 can help me finding out about our problem

12 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

 Well, but many people tried that aswell but I hope the best for u, but like i said ur phone is fine. But before u plug ur Ps3 or Tv/ pc   into ur house u may try it first at ur friend? Also dont connect to ur internet so we can see if its internet related.

allright

Ok, fuck this problem for real. Hear me out. Im going big on this shit now. Ill buy a new phone, new tv and new ps3. No im not trolling at all, the problem is not just bugging me, its causing severe depression. So give me about a week to purchase: 1 sony bravia tv, 1 one plus one and a brand new ps3. Than after 2 weeks ill plug in a brand new pc. (rmaed my old one) 

Ill take screenshots and put all the info in a spreadsheet or some shit. 

Just now, Zemzemma said:

11 minutes ago, SpeedUp10 said:

Can u post ur screenshots here, I also play pokemom go so i cann tell u

Just now, SpeedUp10 said:

Sry im new to this LOD Bias thing, i cant take anything out of ur Screenshot

Could u explain what i have to do and what its telling me acutally.

8 minutes ago, ElijahDar said:

Guys, I've been doing a research the past days. The only thing I found that was close to my kind of problem was the LOD Bias stuff. I know this is an old theory and it doesn't make sense why would system mess with the LOD Bias given the fact that changing parts and nuking partitions wont fix it. But for me it's definitely LOD Bias. I suggest you guys try this as well. It wont hurt. just remember to post screen shots of your test. Im gonna start with mine:

Download "D3D AF Tester" and play with LOD Bias (Take it to -8) and post a screenshot. also post your generated mipband. Please help me research this.

 

Heres Mine:

Ill do it tomorrow