MageTank

Yeah, I think his testing methodology itself was flawless, I just find the scope weird. If you want to point out throttling in Blender, that's perfectly fine, but I'd also prefer to see some actual game performance. Then the conclusion could be "Buy this if you only want to game, but avoid this if you need to do heavy CPU rendering on the side". Most of the people that I would refer to review channels online are mostly just gamers, not people educated enough to draw their own conclusions. While I personally water cool all my stuff, I don't see pairing a 5600X with a stock cooler as a bad thing. Steve mentioned in video that it is a 65w processor, and the AMD stealth cooler (assuming that is what it was based on pictures/video) is rated for 65W. The fact that it maintained a 300mhz boost on that stock cooler under Blender is impressive by itself, lol. I am assuming Steve would tell people to refer to the 3060 review if they want gaming performance, but if the throttling is such a concern, I'd like to see that explored in the video itself, especially since the title of the video also refers to the system as a Gaming PC. Would have also been great to see if the extra $20 he spent on the replaced cooler improved FPS and if so, by how much? Would help inform buyers that paying X percentage more results in Y percentage performance boost.

Yeah, I just watched a video from GN last week about a prebuilt PC for $800 from Micro Center. Dude went in on it being a bad design and thermal throttling under Blender, and came to the conclusion that it was a bad gaming PC. Problem is, I saw zero gaming benchmarks in the video about the gaming PC. I consider him knowledgeable, and his methodology was flawless in that video, but he seems to have issues with the scope of his videos. It makes it hard for me to recommend them as a "review channel" when people won't get relevant review information. This pales in comparison to the scale of issues he pointed out about LMG, but it's still something he himself would have to acknowledge to avoid being hypocritical with his push on ethical testing and scope.

It does, but to a lesser extent. When I used skylake, I didn't exceed 1.15v on either rail, but once I got my OC dialed in, both were stable at 950mv. VCCSA tends to scale a little better though, so having it be higher than VCCIO wouldn't be uncommon, just make sure you avoid pushing too high. Most of the people recommending 1.3-1.35v on VCCSA back then had no idea about IMC longevity on Skylake, they were just taking a guess at it, lol. As for the BIOS, newest isn't always the best, especially when it comes to memory stability. If it supports rolling back, might be worth trying a different BIOS from an earlier version. I don't know if people discuss BIOS testing when it comes to memory OC on LTT, but the OCN forums might have older threads where this was investigated on the Intel CPU's sub-forum.

VCCIO isn't something that provides stability the higher it gets. It's actually very sensitive to "voltage holes" where certain values (both low or high) are simply unstable. For example: I've had scenarios where 950mv was stable but 1000mv wasn't. 50mv difference resulted in complete instability. 1050 was just as stable as 950. I do not like the modern trend of throwing more VCCIO/VCCSA at things for stability, but I am seeing it far more often with most memory overclockers these days. My testing just doesn't show good scaling. The same can be said with VDDP on AMD. If you pay attention to AM5 and the latest 1.0.0.7B AGESA firmware, they actually lowered VDDP from 1.15V down to .9V on most boards because vendors were throwing way too much voltage at XMP kits, resulting in instability and higher boot times. People attributed faster boots to MCR, but it was actually the VDDP voltage. For your issue in particular, might be worth trying a different BIOS. The noise you are hearing can be caused by impedance which would explain why VCCIO is impacting the noise. I would also recommend experimenting with lower VCCIO voltages, I promise you can find stability just as easily with less voltage.

I get hating PCI-SIG and USBIF, but what did JEDEC do? Imagine the nightmare world if they didn't exist. They are also fairly hands off as long as a standard exists for multiple technologies and can operate at said standard. You can deviate significantly from there however you see fit.

I normally use a heating element or heating iron and sit the processor on top of it, but those tools are in my home lab, not my work lab, lol. Ryzen in general is a little trickier to delid compared to Intel and it just isn't worth it thermally speaking. Having to use a thin razer to break the adhesion without scratching the substrate, making sure not to move the die too far to avoid SMDs and making sure it's warm enough to avoid cracking the die as you mentioned previously. I know people that skip the heating step, but I've only had about an 80% success rate without heat, and (aside from this hilariously botched job) a near 100% success rate with some heat. Just don't use a cheap $20 heat gun and handheld thermocouples lol. As for fixing the pins, I am strongly considering it. None of them are actually "bent", they are hanging freely. The solder pads still look very clean, I imagine if I heat the rest, completely remove them and find myself a jig to line up the pins, I could probably fix this.

Buddy, that was heat that made the pins fall off, the processor was completely suspended lol. The cheap heatgun we have doesn't have temperature control, it's simply a twisty nob that says "warm" and "hot". Used a thermal couple to measure surface temps to roughly 314F or 156C (melting point of indium) but it turns out that either the probe was inaccurate or the surface temp didn't reflect actual temp of the substrate. Pins started to fall off, en masse, lol. I am quite experienced with delidding. I'd wager that I've delidded more processors than most people in this world, this is just the consequences of rushing for the sake of science. I'll still bask in its crispy glory any day of the week.

@ShimejiiI did in fact learn something from delidding this processor. Too much heat = bad time. I did manage to get some testing done before I did the deed. Very impressed with it, would make a good ITX chip for sure. I didn't see a "limit 1 per customer" thing on the website so... brb.

You ain't my dad. I am gonna delid two now just because.

I don't know. If I were playing Elden Ring with AI enabled while wearing the sunbro armor and all of a sudden Solaire invaded, yelled "420 Praise It" and defeated a boss with me, that'd be pretty sweet. I'd sacrifice some British melancholy for that.

Oh, I wasn't gonna delid for performance. I just genuinely want to see the CCD configuration to confirm these match a 5800X3D. Nobody else is dumb enough to delid a limited edition processor, so someone has to do it. I am about 99% confident I'll break it. My last Ryzen delid didn't go so well, lol.

With how limited these limited limits are, I want to buy one and delid it, but if I kill it, someone somewhere in the world is gonna yell at me.

Had to do a double-take on this one. Looks like there is a new 5000 series processor launching and oddly enough, it's Micro Center exclusive. I saw the leaks about this one, but this seems to confirm it: My thoughts I originally saw the processor listed on the Micro Center store page (was looking for something to throw in a new ITX build). My favorite spec from the processor has to be this one: Very curious as to why AMD is launching this so late in the game. Would be quite an upgrade for anyone on Zen 1 or 2, that's for sure, but I imagine this would be cutting into their potential 7000 series sales, especially since you can find AM4 boards and DDR4 boards much cheaper than AM5/DDR5. Sources https://community.microcenter.com/discussion/13402/micro-center-unveils-exclusive-launch-of-amd-ryzen-5-5600x3d-processor https://www.microcenter.com/product/667765/amd-ryzen-5-5600x3d-vermeer-am4-33ghz-6-core-boxed-processor-heatsink-not-included Also, been a long time since I did a tech news post. Whoever did the template, high five.

Where do I find one of these rural villages with smart phones that need battery repairs but also do not have stores that sell tools? Sounds like a very niche village, lol. "We have modern technologies, electricity, cellular towers and smart phones, but we draw the line at having hardware and convenience stores". Also, the western world still has to travel for a Wal Mart. If you live in Gilbert WV, you gotta travel 30 miles to Logan just to get to the nearest Wal Mart. God forbid you want pizza that doesn't taste like greasy cardboard... Might as well fly a helicopter to the nearest bordering state, lol.

Finally, some intelligence in gaming journalism!

You realize the average person cannot afford the tools used to put the machine together, right? A lot of these are not done by hand, lol. If you are talking screw drivers, I can guarantee you that the tools available to us in the US are significantly better in quality to the ones used in China. I'd have to imagine this is true for most other parts of the world as well. The people that are DIY are guaranteed to own a Torx kit. The people that just want things to work aren't the ones repairing their own devices. Still confused as to who you are dying on this hill for. The cost of shipping a Torx screw driver to and from a client location is worth more than the screwdriver itself, lol. How about we just agree to change the standard to a superior standard? Why fight to remain on an inferior screw design? Change should be for the better, right?

So if I walk into a dollar store and take a picture of a T5-T9 set, you'll admit I am right? I am down. I'll even let you pick the dollar store. You implying you can't get Torx bits in Hawaii? I have buddies that live on military bases that shop at the mall with the Best Buy in it. They sell Torx sets, I know because I walked one of them through adding a water block on their 3090 FE. Also, shipping rates on Amazon are not exactly "insanely expensive": https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=G473X9WX2JHTRQ56. BTW, prime shipping is still free in Hawaii too. You have a very weird outlook on manufacturers responsibilities to the customer. You might be the only person I have ever encountered that thinks Torx, Penalobes or "security bits" are hard to find, like they are hidden behind some dude awaiting a secret code and handshake before you are allowed to buy them. I am all for giving consumers free stuff (sign me up) but to attempt to die on this hill is rather silly.

What constitutes "not readily available"? I can walk into a dollar store and buy a super cheap precision toolkit with T5-9 bits. Every single Walmart in the US has them, along with every hardware store in existence. Even the mom & pop hardware store in my rural area sells them. Ignoring all of that, I can order a kit from Amazon right now and have it here in 4 hours. Wouldn't that be considered readily available? We really need to let the Phillips bit die. So many better options exist, all of which are readily available and very inexpensive.

You can't blame laptop designs for being "proprietary" just because techs use cheap tools. It doesn't work that way, lol. Quite the contrary. Being an ASP sucks, you gotta deal with RMA nightmares and biohazards. I uh... am very confused by the entire context of this, lol. This is an area where you and I can agree. I hate seeing this on the FE GPUs from Nvidia as well. They use T5 recessed screws on the rear IO, but T9 on others. They then proceed to use philips screws as well, lol. Now one area we haven't covered on laptops is the different length and thread pitches used on screws. Old Acer laptops like my Acer R5-573 were known to use screws with identical heads but slightly different thread pitches. If you didn't pay attention, you could easily crossthread a screw and have a nightmare getting it out without compromising threads. This commonly occurred on the screw that went through the bottom of the laptop through the optical drive retention plate. Again, this isn't "proprietary", it's just poor design, lol.

It's crazy that several "Dell techs" all lied to you simultaneously. Even crazier when you consider the fact that Dell doesn't have in-house service technicians, they train third party ASPs to handle repairs through their repair programs (ship out & on-site). This means several random dudes using $5 Amazon toolkits all told you the same misinformation. Crazy. Fun fact: Our company is an authorized Dell, HP, ASUS, Lenovo, (pretty much every vendor ever) service provider. I've had my hands on every single system design you can imagine, I can't recall a single one with proprietary screws, nor can I recall a single torx screw or bit breaking on me. My tools are so old that the CAB screwdrivers have begun to decompose to the point where our entire tool drawer stinks. We affectionately refer to it as the "stink drawer" when we direct new engineers as to where to find tools, lol. Now Philips screws, they are awful. I run a 50/50 chance of stripping any GPU screw when installing a water block because cheap zinc screws coupled with the worst screw head design equals disaster waiting to happen. It doesn't matter if you use a PH0 bit on a PH0 screw, they are so soft that they simply strip regardless of tool. The only "proprietary" aspects of modern laptop designs I've come across are ones where the panels are glued into a unibody frame and you can't remove them without risking damage to the screen. This, and the ribbon cable connectors to said laptops being proprietary in design.

I have a dozen Clevo and TongFang models on my bench that all have standard screws/battery cables as well, nothing proprietary. I really wonder what models are actually using proprietary "security screws". If people are annoyed with Torx, they shouldn't be. I'd take Torx screws every single time, they are a lot harder to strip and should honestly be the standard, not Philips.

No, they are all not, at least not on every model. My HP Omen 17 uses standard PH0 screws for both the bottom panel as well as the battery bracket. So HP using PH0 screws in their Omen means it's user replaceable, right? Gonna need you to cite sources here. The connector itself is made of pretty durable material. Obviously pulling on the wires themselves isn't smart, but how does that negate the point of it being "easily replaceable"? It's no different from the wire harnesses used in the auto industry for years. I get the feeling that you formulated an opinion based on your experience with two brands then falsely assumed that everyone must be following this trend. Then used said limited experience to force that opinion on others as if it is fact. You really gotta stop doing that, it almost never works. I happen to have an entire stack of laptops near my work bench if you want me to go through them. I guarantee you none of them have "proprietary security screws".

I understood the context, I was just being facetious for the sake of having a giggle, lol. Still, Elon did learn a very important lesson that the rest of the engineering world already knew: Nothing ever fails in the lab. As for your flexing contest with @leadeater, we have another saying in our lab that would work quite well here. "One test is worth a thousand opinions". Wait for the product to officially launch and wait for independent testing to occur. That way, you can argue facts with data to back them up. It's fine for you to drink that Kool-Aid ahead of time and buy into it based on the words of others alone, but don't be surprised if some of us refuse to drink it. Some of us prefer the off-brand Flavor-Aid, if you catch my drift.