Looking for a new mouse

[Timmyfox]

So after serving me well for about 3 or 4 years, my Mionix Naos 5000 seems to be starting to give up. What's happened is that the left click button has been glitching and fails to register some of the clicks. After blowing at it and shaking it a little it works fine again for a little while until the problem reappears. Thus I've decided it's time to replace it.

 

So I wonder if anyone here has any suggestions for a good and very solid mouse with a good build quality.

When I play games it's mostly fps but I'm really not much of a gamer, so fancy gaming-features is whatever as long as it's accurate.

 

This is what I'm looking for: (not all these criteria needs to be filled, but the closer the better)

• Solid built quality, it needs to be built to last!
• Mid/large size as I like to palm grip, it doesn't need to be massive though.
• Blue backlight/illumination
• Built in memory/plug and play (this is a big point, whilst I don't mind using a driver software to modify lighting color or DPI. I want to be able to save these settings to the mouse and use it without having some software running in the background. If I plug it into a different computer, it should use my customized settings rather than just the default)
• Extra, configurable, mouse buttons such as side buttons, scroll wheel buttons etc.. Not a massive amount like some MMO-mice, but just 2-3 thumb buttons and maybe some on the top for things like profile switching or DPI switching. Preferably not any hard-to-press buttons like these top ones behind the scroll wheel on some mice.
• Weight adjustment
• I usually use around 2000dpi with my current mouse
• Detachable chord (not wireless, just detachable for easy transport, although a wireless mouse that's able to run wired should be fine)

[TheRoss0411]

RAT 5 or a Corsair M65

[Scottonpc]

Logitech G400. Here is a guide:

 

[Stonep11]

RAT 5 or a Corsair M65

This

[Stonep11]

Logitech G400. Here is a guide:

 

I don have to disagree with one of the things here. SteelSeries mice (like the Sensei) have acceleration, but that can be turned off in the software.

[Toby]

I don have to disagree with one of the things here. SteelSeries mice (like the Sensei) have acceleration, but that can be turned off in the software.

 

No they can't. Aside from the software acceleration, there is acceleration inherent to sensors which can't be changed. This is why all the "acceptable" mice in that chart are optical mice.

 

That said, it's a silly chart that's obnoxiously presented and rather out of date.

[ManOfDisguise]

Logitech G400. Here is a guide:

 

yea i saw this before, pretty BS guide lolol

[Timmyfox]

RAT 5 or a Corsair M65

The black M65 seems neat, I'll look into it more. I like the aluminum body.

The RAT 5 doesn't seem too appealing though. I don't like the red accents on the black version (white/silver or blue is what I want) and the reviews seem very mixed, either people say it's awesome or they have a bunch of issues.

 

Logitech G400. Here is a guide:

[snip]

G400/G400s

The G400 has a nice price but It looks a bit generic. I am a bit of a sucker for illumination as well, so I would've liked to see that.

Anyhow, seeing as it has programmable buttons, how much is that tied to the software? I used to have a Logitech G-series keyboard previously and a major gripe I had with it was that if you didn't have their software running at all times, the backlighting would revert to the default white and the macro keys would be disabled. If this mouse exhibits the same trait, that could be a dealbreaker for me as I want to be able to use the mouse with several different computers without installing the software on each computer.

 

The chart doesn't have too much info as to why any of these mice are better than the others, just stating that they are. I disagree about adjustable weight being stupid as I, for one, think a lighter mouse feels cheap and is a bit harder to control. I dislike also how it implies that anything that isn't listed is not worth your time.

[Timmyfox]

M65 seems to be the most appealing one currently.

Any one have any comments or other models to suggest?

[JoshuaTjandra]

The chart is for those who really have problems with acceleration. they need perfect 1:1 mouse mapping.
If you don't know what that is, or don't feel like there is any problem with your laser mouse, don't bother getting into it. (you can't go back to using laser mice with accel)

Muscle memory is the most important thing if you're trying to aim better (Use same DPI on all games/ use mouse-sensitivity.com to convert)

so just use what you like.

 

If you REALLY want to get into optical mice, perfect 1:1 mapping and that, there's a basic guide on youtube (how to aim better at BF4 by frankieonpcin1080p)

[Timmyfox]

The chart is for those who really have problems with acceleration. they need perfect 1:1 mouse mapping.

If you don't know what that is, or don't feel like there is any problem with your laser mouse, don't bother getting into it. (you can't go back to using laser mice with accel)

Muscle memory is the most important thing if you're trying to aim better (Use same DPI on all games/ use mouse-sensitivity.com to convert)

so just use what you like.

 

If you REALLY want to get into optical mice, perfect 1:1 mapping and that, there's a basic guide on youtube (how to aim better at BF4 by frankieonpcin1080p)

I don't think that would be much of a problem for me.

I consider myself rather accurate aiming with my current mouse. I don't use software acceleration as I think that's horrible but I've always had the Windows "Enhance pointer precision" setting enabled as I feel it helps with accuracy inside Windows without turning down the sensitivity/dpi significantly. If you don't know what that is, it's seemingly a form of subtle software acceleration which adjusts how far the cursor moves depending on how fast you move the mouse.

 

As said I use around 2000dpi pretty much all the time as that's what feels best inside Windows. If I'm in a game and it feels too slow/fast I just adjust the sensitivity in-game.

[GamerDude]

yea i saw this before, pretty BS guide lolol

I agree, BS guide......I have no issue with accuracy with all the mice I've used, all of them are Laser with the exception of a CM Xornet which is optical. I've been playing BF4 with my Roccat Kone XTD and I do just fine.....maybe it's because I'm so used to laser mice.

[TofuAce]

If you like the Mionix Naos shape, and don't use more than 2000 cpi, then why not the Mionix Naos 3200? It has a great optical sensor.

 

Other larger mice to palm that I'd suggest is the Zowie ec1, Func ms-3 or the Roccat Kone Pure Optical. That's just off the top of my head right now.

 

I wear large through extra large motorcycle gloves (depending on their brand), and the Logitech g400s is barely big enough to be palmable.  If i were to really rest my fingers out they would reach past the mouse buttons on top. It has a frame around it that prevents them being clickable. But the logitech mice are smaller than the ones I named above, so just choose what fits your budget and looks from those.

[Timmyfox]

If you like the Mionix Naos shape, and don't use more than 2000 cpi, then why not the Mionix Naos 3200? It has a great optical sensor.

 

Other larger mice to palm that I'd suggest is the Zowie ec1, or the Roccat Kone Pure Optical. That's just off the top of my head right now.

 

I wear large through extra large motorcycle gloves (depending on their brand), and the Logitech g400s is barely big enough to be palmable.  If i were to really rest my fingers out they would reach past the mouse buttons on top. It has a frame around it that prevents them being clickable. But the logitech mice are smaller than the ones I named above, so just choose what fits your budget and looks from those.

Well, it's good to check the alternatives. I'm not really committed to any brand and since both the Naos 5000 and 3200 are quite old models and my experience with their software perhaps isn't the best I figured I'd see what some other brands have to offer.

 

Can't say much about the Zowie else than that it looks very generic and not too ergonomic at first impression. Does it offer any special features like programmable buttons?

The Roccat model looks neat, although I see a bit of mixed reviews about it.

 

As for the Logitech g400/s.. Refer to my post about it. Essentially my gripe with Logitech is that they require you to have their gaming software active all the time to allow their mice/keyboards work as they should. As soon as I'd exit out of their gaming software entirely the LED's would revert to the default color (white) and customized buttons/macro buttons would not function as I want them to.

I'm not sure if Logitech has addressed this with newer versions/models but it is a dealbreaker for me as it means it won't function consistently if I switch to another OS or plug it in to a different computer without the gaming software installed (and even if it is I'll have to copy over my settings to that computer and go through all that hassle in order for it to work).

 

I have no experience/information for other brands like Corsair, Steelseries, Razer, Roccat etc.. in this respect but if anyone knows if anyone else than Logitech requires you to install and run their driver software in order for it to run consistently (rather than revert to factory settings), let me know.

[TofuAce]

"Well, it's good to check the alternatives. I'm not really committed to any brand and since both the Naos 5000 and 3200 are quite old models and my experience with their software perhaps isn't the best I figured I'd see what some other brands have to offer."

 

I wouldn't worry about their age. The Naos 3200 still has what many out there to be the best current mouse sensor in the marketplace. The only difference in performance between different mice with the same sensor is how the company implements it through firmware, and lens placement. This is why we usually hear the top three current models in the market to be the Zowie FK, Razer Deathadder, and Logitech g400s. The other mice with the Avago  ADNS-3090 are not quite as well implemented as those top three. Will this difference affect most people out there? I doubt it. Yet, people like making definitive lists and this is the result. I'm no better with my g400s than I am with my CM Storm Recon. I only use the g400s because it is more palm grip friendly than the claw style of the CM Storm Recon.

 

 

 

"Can't say much about the Zowie else than that it looks very generic and not too ergonomic at first impression. Does it offer any special features like programmable buttons?"

 

Compared to your Naos, others will be less ergonomic. The only other mouse I can remember off hand that is similar in shape is the Func MS-3. One came out before the other, I can't remember which. Either way, those are some very comfortable mice.

 

Zowie is known for their minimalistic approach, putting performance above all else. Forgoing software and customizing, for predictability with plugging it into various computers other than your main one you game on at home. The ec-1 is comfortable though, it's like a larger intellimouse style shape. 

 

 

"The Roccat model looks neat, although I see a bit of mixed reviews about it."

 

Roccat is a very underrated company, and is still fairly new in the North American market. They are German I believe. They make my favorite mice mats so far, the Taitos. That being said, I've never used anything else in their product range unfortunately. 

 

That being said, I find mixed reviews on nearly everything really. Engineering in general, and of course including mice, is a set of compromises. Perfection doesn't exist, and what we call perfect is simply a subjective viewpoint from an individual. Something that I absolutely rate highly might not be suitable or liked by someone else, and vice verse.

 

So far though, i don't have any reason to think their mice are low quality, or cheaply made. You didn't state any complaints from those mixed reviews so I can't say anything other than that.

 

"As for the Logitech g400/s.. Refer to my post about it."

 

Yes, I wasn't really suggesting it. Just commenting on my experience with it since it was brought up. I was talking more about what is palm grip sized in comparison to the g400s more than anything. On a further note, the g400s is very accurate, but the cord and mouse wheel annoy me constantly. Again, nothing is perfect... compromises, blah blah blah.

 

"I switch to another OS or plug it in to a different computer without the gaming software installed (and even if it is I'll have to copy over my settings to that computer and go through all that hassle in order for it to work)."

 

Zowie fans list this as a top reason to switch to Zowie mice. Then again (Compromises, no perfection, blah blah), you will be giving up macro's and customizability like changing led color. Their mind set, if I could sum it all up, is to try to get the options right the first time and keep that as default.

 

"I have no experience/information for other brands like Corsair, Steelseries, Razer, Roccat etc.. in this respect but if anyone knows if anyone else than Logitech requires you to install and run their driver software in order for it to run consistently (rather than revert to factory settings), let me know."

 

With my g400s I never installed any software. I've always heard reviewers, including Linus, say that logitech has the best software for mice. I personally haven't used every manufacturers software out there, so I don't know. I never had any issues with logitech, microsoft, razer, and CM storm mice software in the past. Didn't like the look and feel of the microsoft and razer versions but, thats just a subjective opinion on my part.

 

Just some video about the process of designing mice. I'm not saying you should get a logitech mouse. I still stick with the suggetsions I had earlier. Mionix Naos 3200, ROCCAT Kone Pure Optical, Zowie EC-1 (EC-2 is medium sized, so smaller. The AM and FK series are claw grip mice)

 

 

[Timmyfox]

I've got the Corsair M90 and I'm fairly happy with it. I'm sure the M65 has identical build quality to the M90, which is nearly indestructible judging from my 5 months of intense torture. The braided cable is hard to cut through it seems too.

That's nice to hear!

 

How's the software? Does the macros still work on other computers/without it running?

[ManOfDisguise]

I agree, BS guide......I have no issue with accuracy with all the mice I've used, all of them are Laser with the exception of a CM Xornet which is optical. I've been playing BF4 with my Roccat Kone XTD and I do just fine.....maybe it's because I'm so used to laser mice.

a question about theroccat kone xtd. i have considered buying this mouse because my DA is a bit small for me to palm. do u have big hands? can u palm the xtd?

[Timmyfox]

It's got easy DPI managment, but I have no idea how to make macros work, so I cannot answer that. Sorry. 

Okie, maybe macros wasn't the best word for it but I think that answers my question anyhow, thanks!

 

P.S, I love your profile picture man

[Timmyfox]

Hmm, so I disassembled my Naos 5000 and cleaned it out thoroughly, blowing out dust and all that before re-assembling it and it's now been working flawlessly for the entire day.

 

Regardless I went ahead and ordered myself a black Corsair M65 and an MM200 mousepad to go with it as my current steelseries one has lost its grippyness and is fairly worn out-looking.

I'll report my initial impressions when I get it!

 

(Thanks for all the suggestions guys!)

[TofuAce]

Hmm, so I disassembled my Naos 5000 and cleaned it out thoroughly, blowing out dust and all that before re-assembling it and it's now been working flawlessly for the entire day.

 

Regardless I went ahead and ordered myself a black Corsair M65 and an MM200 mousepad to go with it as my current steelseries one has lost its grippyness and is fairly worn out-looking.

I'll report my initial impressions when I get it!

 

Yeah I had to do that with my last razor mouse a lot.

[Timmyfox]

Yeah I had to do that with my last razor mouse a lot.

I see. Honestly it's the first time I have to do so with any mouse! And my Naos, as mentioned, is 3 or 4 years old now.

[solarflare]

Who cares about software? 

 

As long as it tracks well has 2 thumb side buttons and feels really comfortable in your hand then its probably going to be a really nice mouse to use. 

 

Mionix Naos 3200 looks like it might be something I may just have to check out. it has a good shape and keeps your pinky off the mouse mat sort of like a naga without all the extra buttons in the way. and a optical sensor also which is really nice and my preferred sensor wonder if it has prediction i really wish all manufactures would have a on/off for that feature in the software/drivers.

 

Right now i have 2xG400 and a G400S between my pain pc guest pc and spare pc at my parents. 

 

I really liked the naga but the thumb grid is just very meh when it comes to quick usage like the 2 buttons im used to on other mice such as the g400 / mx510 / Deathadder ect. 

[Timmyfox]

Who cares about software?

As long as it tracks well has 2 thumb side buttons and feels really comfortable in your hand then its probably going to be a really nice mouse to use.

Mionix Naos 3200 looks like it might be something I may just have to check out. it has a good shape and keeps your pinky off the mouse mat sort of like a naga without all the extra buttons in the way. and a optical sensor also which is really nice and my preferred sensor wonder if it has prediction i really wish all manufactures would have a on/off for that feature in the software/drivers.

Right now i have 2xG400 and a G400S between my pain pc guest pc and spare pc at my parents.

I really liked the naga but the thumb grid is just very meh when it comes to quick usage like the 2 buttons im used to on other mice such as the g400 / mx510 / Deathadder ect.

I do. I don't want a mouse or keyboard that is entirely dependent on the software being installed at all times for it to work. The Naos mouse just uses the software to change settings (reprogram buttons, set macros, change LED colors etc) then it's all stored inside the mouse as the default setting and will work that way on any computer regardless if you have their software installed or not until you change it again.

My only issue with the Naos software is that it's really slow (applying any setting for example takes like 2 seconds of "loading, please wait") and on one occasion it's glitches and reset my mouse and all profiles to factory settings so that I had to redo it all. There's also no real-time preview so you have to wait for it to click apply before you can test something.

[TofuAce]

.

My only issue with the Naos software is that it's really slow (applying any setting for example takes like 2 seconds of "loading, please wait") 

 

That isn't the software. It's the computer communicating with the mouse, saving the setting,s and processing it.

[Timmyfox]

That isn't the software. It's the computer communicating with the mouse, saving the setting,s and processing it.

Yes of course, but it's still pretty dang slow. I suspect the way the communication is handled isn't the most efficient. Other mice and keyboard I've had in my past by other brands have never been this slow. Many of them work in real time so that a macro is assigned as soon as you make it, the LED color and DPI is changed the moment you move the respective slider etc..

 

With the Naos software, this is a different story - after you change what you wish to change you will have to click the "Apply" button and wait for about 2-3 seconds. In this time, the mouse will be mostly unusable and the software freezes (much like a program that stops responding).

When you click "OK" (to close the software) it will re-apply the currect setting even if you have not changed anything since you last clicked apply meaning you have to wait for it to freeze for 2-3 seconds and reapply the same configuration that is already applied!

 

One final point also is that it doesn't seem read the settings from the mouse but rather remembers the configuration locally. Thus trying to change a setting on a different computer or reinstalling it will make the software display the factory default settings whilst the mouse is using my own customized ones.