Is The Verge actually biased?

[VAkena]

I was watching a couple of The Verge reviews on some products (iPad Pro and Surface Pro 4), but noticed some odd points made in the reviews.

 

The iPad Pro reviewer sees the iPad Pro as a product that can definitely replace her laptop for business trips (although it only has one operating angle). This is controversial because The Verge has extensively criticized the Surface's (Pro 2) 2 stage kickstand, The Surface Pro 3 and 4 are also criticized to be 'unusable' on the lap but doesn't the indefinite viewing angles compensate for that? The Verge doesn't think so .

 

Why is it that since it's an Apple product you treat it differently - as if it had no flaws. But hey, we all have different opinions; it just doesn't seem fair. What do you think? Or do you ignore The Verge's reviews?

[ShadowCaptain]

SNIP

 

The Verge - is a publication

 

The review is by an individual - therefore each individual reviewer could have their own biases, allegiances, and opinions

If everybody at the verge wrote a review, I bet you would have wildly different scores and opinions 

 

 

Now - Do they treat apple products differently, maybe, but there are pros and cons to this, there are different ways to approach a review "is it a good Apple product" "is it a good product" "does it compare to other tablets" "does it compare to other OS systems"

it depends what question the reviewer is answering and you should always understand the context of a review

[VAkena]

The Verge - is a publication

 

The review is by an individual - therefore each individual reviewer could have their own biases, allegiances, and opinions

 

If everybody at the verge wrote a review, I bet you would have wildly different scores and opinions 

Every review I've seen from them is just pro Apple, it's like no other brand really gets a fair go

[JefferyD90]

ShadowCaptain, on 26 Nov 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

The Verge - is a publication

 

The review is by an individual - therefore each individual reviewer could have their own biases, allegiances, and opinions

 

If everybody at the verge wrote a review, I bet you would have wildly different scores and opinions 

This, and EVERYONE is biased to some degree.

[Toddwjp]

The Verge - is a publication

 

The review is by an individual - therefore each individual reviewer could have their own biases, allegiances, and opinions

 

If everybody at the verge wrote a review, I bet you would have wildly different scores and opinions 

 

however the verge its self should attempt to normalise this by advising its reviewers to take into account reviews other reviewers have done of similar products. eg if this reviewer had read the other reviews of products like the surfaces and in this review she says that she disagrees with the previous one then it makes it clear that its individuals and not the site recommending the product.

 

however i would say that most places seem to give apple products a little bit more credit by talking more about what the product can do rather then what it cant

[Guest]

I agree with @ShadowCaptain 

 

There were three reviews on the iPad Pro and the opinions they gave were different

The professional writer who's in charge of their hardware found it easy to use

But their other writer disagreed and called Cook "insane" for making statements that would tarnish Apple's name

And the other writer preferred Windows because it had more support for applications in the professional side of tech

[ShadowCaptain]

This, and EVERYONE is biased to some degree.

 

Yah (I wrote a bit more too above)

 

Every review I've seen from them is just pro Apple, it's like no other brand really gets a fair go

 

Sure, but as I wrote above (I edited and added more) - it depends HOW they are reviewing them,  are they comparing it to OTHER Apple devices, or all other devices

 

For example, if I was reviewing my iPhone, I would most liekly be bias, because it is my chosen platform of choice for personal reasons

 

EVERY review is Bias - there is NO such thing as an objective review (that is called news, or a spec list)

 

When you read a review you are reading the review writers own opinions/biases - not the companies, and it is 100% bias and their own opinion

 

Reviews are not reporting facts - that would be a benchmark or analysis 

[VAkena]

This, and EVERYONE is biased to some degree.

What I don't understand is that an improvement on a non-Apple device is like 'It's not good enough - needs refinement', but with an Apple device (that has minimal features) 'It's revolutionary'

[Guest]

Every review I've seen from them is just pro Apple, it's like no other brand really gets a fair go

Here's an example of non-pro Apple review about the new iPad (pun not intended): http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/11/9707864/walt-mossberg-ipad-pro-laptop-replacement

[VAkena]

Yah (I wrote a bit more too above)

 

 

Sure, but as I wrote above (I edited and added more) - it depends HOW they are reviewing them,  are they comparing it to OTHER Apple devices, or all other devices

 

For example, if I was reviewing my iPhone, I would most liekly be bias, because it is my chosen platform of choice for personal reasons

 

EVERY review is Bias - there is NO such thing as an objective review (that is called news, or a spec list)

 

When you read a review you are reading the review writers own opinions/biases - not the companies, and it is 100% bias and their own opinion

 

Reviews are not reporting facts - that would be a benchmark or analysis 

So basically, if it's something they don't like (in this case being Windows and Surface Pro 4) - they shouldn't be giving it a fair go? Objectively, in most ways the Surface Pro 4 is superior to the iPad Pro but ends up loosing because who ever's conducting the review doesn't like Windows or the device? I guess only Apple wins with The Verge.

[ShadowCaptain]

So basically, if it's something they don't like (in this case being Windows and Surface Pro 4) - they shouldn't be giving it a fair go? Objectively, in most ways the Surface Pro 4 is superior to the iPad Pro but ends up loosing because who ever's conducting the review doesn't like Windows or the device? I guess only Apple wins with The Verge.

 

Well why would something the people reviewing it don't like get a good review?

 

If I was reviewing cars, and you gave me a Ford Fiesta, I would hate it, I could objectively talk about its price, its fuel economy, its stereo and equipment, and conclude its a nice car for the money

 

But if you gave me a BMW M3 to review, it would get a higher score, because its a car I like

Objective reviews, do not exist - if you want to OBJECTIVELY compare two products, read the spec sheets, and decide which OS suits you best - this cannot be represented in a review -

 

 

A review, is what the reviewer, personally thinks about the product - not if its objectively the best, not if their opinion matches up with the general consensus 

 

Made up random example - everyone hates Star Wars Ep 1 - but I really like it, so I would give it a high score, - because that is my opinon - and my review would be positive

[VAkena]

Here's an example of non-pro Apple review about the new iPad (pun not intended): http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/11/9707864/walt-mossberg-ipad-pro-laptop-replacement

He's just stating the obvious, we know it can't replace your laptop. What I'm getting at is that their reviews are mostly pro Apple, it's like no other brand has a chance. 

[ShadowCaptain]

He's just stating the obvious, we know it can't replace your laptop. What I'm getting at is that their reviews are mostly pro Apple, it's like no other brand has a chance. 

 

Plenty of other brands get good reviews on the verge

 

Nexus 6P review - best android phone with 8.8/10

http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/20/9571535/nexus-6p-review

 

Surface Pro 4 8/10 - Negatives are awkward for a lap - so its not a laptop replacement, too expensive, W10, not great for touch

http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/21/9579265/microsoft-surface-pro-4-review

[VAkena]

Well why would something the people reviewing it don't like get a good review?

 

If I was reviewing cars, and you gave me a Ford Fiesta, I would hate it, I could objectively talk about its price, its fuel economy, its stereo and equipment, and conclude its a nice car for the money

 

But if you gave me a BMW M3 to review, it would get a higher score, because its a car I like

Objective reviews, do not exist - if you want to OBJECTIVELY compare two products, read the spec sheets, and decide which OS suits you best - this cannot be represented in a review -

 

 

A review, is what the reviewer, personally thinks about the product - not if its objectively the best, not if their opinion matches up with the general consensus 

 

Made up random example - everyone hates Star Wars Ep 1 - but I really like it, so I would give it a high score, - because that is my opinon - and my review would be positive

You've made a good point, but I still object because it's not giving both products a fair go. I understand that the reviewer may not like to product but there are others who do that like the product. In the screenshot I put up the majority of likes were dislikes, if you read the comments you can see that other people also don't think it was a fair review. All in all you don't have to like the product but still give it a fair go - because there are others who do and want to see a two sided review.

 

/thread

Edited November 26, 2015 by VAkena

[ShadowCaptain]

You've made a good point, but I still object because it's not giving both products a fair go. I understand that the reviewer may not like to product but there are others who do that like the product. In the screenshot I put up the majority of likes were dislikes, if you read the comments you can see that other people also don't think it was a fair review. All in all you don't have to like the product but still give it a fair go - because there are others who do and want to see a two sided review.

its not conceivable for every reviewer to try every device - not every review needs to be a comparison, a product can stand on its own merit without being weighed against competing products

 

As long as you understand what the reviewer is saying 

 

Besides you should always read reviews from multiple sources, its possible the reviews where it gets a negative score, are from people bias AGAINST Apple

 

As I said, if I did a review of the Phantom Menace that was positive, I would get more dislikes than likes, because the consensus is that everyone hates it - does that make my opinion less valid? or my review less useful?

[ShadowCaptain]

I would just like to clarify I am neither attacking nor defending the verge, I am talking about reviews in general

 

If the Verge ARE Apple bias, then you know to take their recommendations with a pinch of salt

 

AS I say, its impossible to be objective, I know for example that TotalBiscuit hates puzzle games, so if he did a review of one, I would understand that his opinion is ALREADY going to be negative - because its a genre he does not like

 

Is he being Bias? Yup, but thats okay

[VAkena]

its not conceivable for every reviewer to try every device - not every review needs to be a comparison, a product can stand on its own merit without being weighed against competing products

 

As long as you understand what the reviewer is saying 

 

Besides you should always read reviews from multiple sources, its possible the reviews where it gets a negative score, are from people bias AGAINST Apple

 

As I said, if I did a review of the Phantom Menace that was positive, I would get more dislikes than likes, because the consensus is that everyone hates it - does that make my opinion less valid? or my review less useful?

I understand, it's just a more even playing field when reviews are legitimately two-sided (as in pros and cons). At-the-end-of-the-day all brands benefit from a two-sided review because the full capabilities and draw-backs are shown of their products.  

[ShadowCaptain]

I understand, it's just a more even playing field when reviews are legitimately two-sided (as in pros and cons). At-the-end-of-the-day all brands benefit from a two-sided review because the full capabilities and draw-backs are shown of their products.  

 

Then pull up the spec sheets side by side, but as we all know this is also an unfair comparison of products

 

 

Honestly, its impossible to have objective reviews, like I know for example Linus does not like Macbooks, but a 15" retina to me is like a near perfect product

 

So.. Do I score the mac high, because its perfect to me? or low, because I can get a better specced laptop cheaper?

[VAkena]

 

So.. Do I score the mac high, because its perfect to me? or low, because I can get a better specced laptop cheaper?

You can score it high because it is a good product, although you can also say that others may find it a waste of money because you can get something better ('more bang for your buck'). This way you acknowledge that the product is actually pretty good but you can counter that with the price; others may want something cheaper that can do more. It's all about providing a two-way review. Eg, for every positive you can mention a negative and conclude that it depends on who you are and what you're looking for.

[ShadowCaptain]

You can score it high because it is a good product, although you can also say that others may find it a waste of money because you can get something better ('more bang for your buck'). This way you acknowledge that the product is actually pretty good but you can counter that with the price; others may want something cheaper that can do more. It's all about providing a two-way review. Eg, for every positive you can mention a negative and conclude that it depends on who you are and what you're looking for.

 

That is true, but the person reviewing may not share that opinion, or may not find that the price is too high with respect to what they get from it

 

I agree with what you are saying, but if you read the written review (not seen the video, sorry cant comment) they do say a few things like that

 

"So fundamentally, I know that the iPad Pro can’t do all of the things my MacBook Pro can do"

 

"It’s not better than my laptop, but makes far fewer sacrifices than I expected. Did I mention this is a very big iPad?"

 

"But I can’t manipulate more than two app windows at a time on the iPad Pro. I can’t control things with a trackpad. I can’t run Final Cut Pro on the iPad Pro. "

 

" Pricey for an iPad? Uh, yeah. Expensive for a PC even? Yes, if you’re talking about the low- to mid-range PCs that clutter shelves during back-to-school season. It’s basically right in line with something like the Surface Pro 4 ($899) and the MacBook Air ($999)."

 

 

So- this written review did not directly compare it to a Surface, but it basically reviewed it as a large, expensive iPad, that cannot replace a laptop or desktop, but is a good runner up, speakers and camera got low marks etc

 

 

It got an 8.7, SP4 got 8.0, Surface book got 8.3

 

BTW - I am agreeing that is IS bias - I am just explaining why that is not an issue

[LukeTim]

I'm not sure if the site as a whole is biased towards Apple, but I have seen some ridiculous things said in their reviews.

Their Nexus 9 review, if I remember correctly, didn't talk much about the merits and demerits of the Nexus 9 itself, and rather just boiled down to "it's alright but it would be better if it was the iPad Air 2".

I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with talking about your own preferences in a review, since it is all opinion at the end of the day. However that particular review seemed a little too absurd for me to take it seriously. I'm not sure a review should just be a comparison like that. I don't think it even mentioned any other Android tablets...

Just to be clear, I was excited about the Nexus 9 at the time, but I now own an iPad Air 2 instead (and I bloody love it). 

[YT2002]

I believe Apple has some sort of agreement, there are 2 videos called "iVerge

In the first video, they said the Nexus 7 has "Software Issues"

And in the second one, they said the Nexus 5 was "more expensive upfront"

[LukeTim]

I believe Apple has some sort of agreement, there are 2 videos called "iVerge

 

In the first video, they said the Nexus 7 has "Software Issues"

And in the second one, they said the Nexus 5 was "more expensive upfront"

That second video. That's what I was talking about with the Nexus 9 review. It's ridiculous. They're not even being subtle about it.

[KemoKa]

They're all biased because they're all people with biases and opinions. That's why forums like this exist, so we can sift through the bias and discuss what's worth taking into account and what is just a load of blind, biased guff.

[Guest Kloaked]

Just gonna leave my two cents.

I do believe in objectivity. The Verge and other outlets have no excuse for not conditioning their writers to be objective.

I've heard people say you will never find complete objectivity, but if you're in a position of reviewing products, you should be more than capable of producing objective analysis of what you're reviewing across the board.

What I mean is every product gets a fair shake at what they do. Linus, while being more angry at the product than anything, said that the Surface Pro 3 wasn't for him. Now I agree with some of the points he was making, but what people should do is judge the product. He did do it in some objective fashion, but I figured he wasn't going to like it since he was so used to that Dell 2-in-1.