Ben Carson and recent events and gun laws.

[SImoHayha]

Well everyone seems to be freaking out at Ben Carson because he said something.

 

" I would not let him stand there and let me shoot me, I would say " Hey guys lets attack him, he may shoot me but he can't get us all " 

 

Now this the event that happened that lead up to him saying this was you know the Oregon shooting that happened.

 

now remember he's not criticizing the students/teachers at the school for not doing that. He's saying what he would've done. And you can say  " Well he wasn't in a real situation like that so he can't speak "  Well sorry to tell ya guys but we all do that. I bet you have heard your friend say " Oh my I totally would've whooped X's ass and the wipe the floor with him " Did he every try to fight the guy nope, has he ever gotten into a fight nope. We all say it eventually in our lifetime saying that we would do something but didn't in x situation. 

 

 

I can totally get why people would be angry I mean he did do a little chuckle at the end which wasn't very necessary. But I can get his point, it's fear that gets to us of course, in our body fear is what keeps us alive so of course when a person is shooting your first reaction is to run as fast as you can from the shooter, it's something evolutionary in a sense, if we had no fear of things we would be like the Dodo birds, extinct because they didn't fear humans and would actually try to fight them and well of course get shot and eaten until extinction.

 

But I think what he's trying to say is that if he's in a room or coming into a room everyone should just basically attack the attacker.

 

What my school/police taught at our high school, is to first run away if you can. If you can't then try to hide from the attacker, and lastly only and if it's the final option at hand attack the attacker.

 

The thing about guns. The thing that people say for gun right is that it's well our right to have a gun which is very true. There is a reason for having gun rights for the people, it was made for self-defense and for fighting against the government in any case that the government/military goes and attacks the people.

 

People against gun laws usually say " Well lets get rid of all guns we don't need them and can stop school shootings "  Well while that sounds A-ok the problem with that is criminals and people that are mental or simply just angry and in a haze, can still get guns via the black market, gun markets, and other ways hell for the most part, people who get guns and start shooting people, get them from people who have guns legally, meaning we should have them locked up or create new locks for guns.

 

Another argument is that " Well why have laws anyway if criminals break them " Well A your either incredibly stupid or B your still incredibly stupid.

Laws are in place for a reason, sure there are some incredibly stupid laws, like not holding ice cream in your back-pocket. The reason for laws is for safety for people, normal people will follow them accordingly, makes life generally better because since their are laws you can't say what is legal and not illegal when you do something or somebody and says " Well the law doesn't say I couldn't ".

 

 

Still there isn't just one solution. The world is just like that, there can't simply be one solution for everything because everyone thinks differently like gun laws, one side keeps saying guns laws should be kept the way they're and think their answer is the true right solution, and the other want to change or remove guns from the equation and say their solution is the true solution.

 

What do you guys think ?

 

 

[ANewFace]

THANK YOU. Fing lockdown drills are the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Why the F**k does it make sense to all ball up in a corner when there is a gunman? That's just makes it easier, run around, try to disarm him, dont hide in a corner or under a desk 

[SImoHayha]

THANK YOU. Fing lockdown drills are the dumbest thing I have ever seen. Why the F**k does it make sense to all ball up in a corner when there is a gunman? That's just makes it easier, run around, try to disarm him, dont hide in a corner or under a desk 

They aren't dumb, but if your in the room already and no one is coming towards you then continue to hide. Only if and only if they come through the door is when you guys should attack.

[Guest Kloaked]

We're not going to solve the world's problems on this forum, so I hope people don't act like they know all the answers.

 

With that said, I'm in the position of people having the right to gun ownership. However, I'm also in the position of wanting better gun control and mental healthcare as the two go hand in hand most of the time. We need to be able to better determine who is allowed to own a gun, and we need more focus on mental health because from what I understand, the US's mental healthcare absolutely sucks, and I would agree.

 

I think part of the problem is that a majority of people with mental health issues don't think they have an issue and won't go see someone about it out of denial. I used to be one of these people and I fully acknowledge that I need to see a therapist. People are either too prideful or just don't realize that they have a problem.

 

Then we have crummy gun laws and how easy it is to get a firearm in some areas of the US. There needs to be a blanket law across the country that says you need to meet certain requirements to own a gun, within reason.

 

None of this can be fixed overnight. I wish it could.

 

EDIT: to add to the health care part, there's a significant problem in our youth today. It's getting worse and worse and people are brushing it off as "Well culture is just changing and I was that bad at that age". That's no excuse. I shouldn't have had to put up with the amount of bullshit that I did when I was growing up going to public school. It's left me with trust issues and other issues I'd like to be rid of.

[Jord1990]

It's way to late to restrict guns in America. It is something that you cannot get rid of. The world is an absolute horrible place and all you can still do is live until your heart stops, help other people and be happy.

The fear of everything is what ruins your life, not dieing.....

[thekeemo]

It's way to late to restrict guns in America. It is something that you cannot get rid of. The world is an absolute horrible place and all you can still do is live until your heart stops, help other people and be happy.

The fear of everything is what ruins your life, not dieing.....

Well you could stop all manufacturing of them.

And ban the selling of them.

And restrict usage.

Same goes for ammunition. Bit by bit they will disappear.

[AresKrieger]

I think if they tried to take people's guns outright it would be a bloodbath, as for mental health regardless of the gun issue that system needs to be fixed, as for the way to stop shootings everyone attacking would stop the shooter but would likely net similar casualties, in order to take out some one with more range than you have and have a chance  it must be a ambush style attack (waiting around a corner with a chair or something) a blitz would likely down the gunman but multiple people will go down with him. The only way to stop shootings is to figure out why they're on the rise despite the fact that guns have been common place in the US for decades

[SImoHayha]

It's way to late to restrict guns in America. It is something that you cannot get rid of. The world is an absolute horrible place and all you can still do is live until your heart stops, help other people and be happy.

The fear of everything is what ruins your life, not dieing.....

Well the problem is the world isn't like that. We can certainly have stricter gun laws so that people have to pass a certain test every 6 months or something like that.

[Jord1990]

Well the problem is the world isn't like that. We can certainly have stricter gun laws so that people have to pass a certain test every 6 months or something like that.

Pretty sure riots will erupt everywhere in America if you try that.

[SImoHayha]

Well you could stop all manufacturing of them.

And ban the selling of them.

And restrict usage.

Same goes for ammunition. Bit by bit they will disappear.

 

Many people have guns and it actually does detter crime, in states people who open carry have reduce crimerates by 23 percent

Not in all states but in most states they do.

[thekeemo]

Many people have guns and it actually does detter crime, in states people who open carry have reduce crimerates by 23 percent

Not in all states but in most states they do.

[SImoHayha]

Pretty sure riots will erupt everywhere in America if you try that.

I highly doubt it my friend. America certainly isn't crazy a people always make to be, it's six months as well. It would be a basic check if you know how to properly disarm a gun ( like make sure you can't fire it without a magazine in it ) Then locking it. Then a written test and such. Or hell what I thought would be cards. Each Card represents a gun you can purchase and how much training you have been through. Like purchasing a pistol would be a green card which means you have to pass basic training, know how to use a gun, take it apart and clean and yada yada ya, and you can only keep going up per different tier of weapons once you have passed other tests and waited something years.

[Yuval]

Alright, i'm going to make this thread worst by including Israel here but.... Here it goes.

 

 

Restricting guns is the most retarded thing i have heard. Why? Right now in israel were going through a "Silent Intifada", Our intelligence got to the point where it's almost impossible to organize an attack, time between plan and action has to be minimal or you'd be arrested. This plus the heavy restriction on weapons (you can barely get a handgun as a citizen, must be in a near war zone, EI gaza border) lead to Palestinians grabbing a knife, a Potato peeler (which was used to stab a guy today) or anything really and going on mass killing sprees. No planning just an urge.

There is your proof removing guns won't help, they will use knifes, and potato peelers. The only way these events are stopped are by the police and military, which have strong presence everywhere now. (the response time from an attack like these could be seconds or minutes) That and civilians rushing to restrain the stabbers or attackers.

 

 

I brought this up as it is a relevant example when it comes to your gun debate. Forbidding the usage of guns won't stop nor would it change the outcome, a knife is as deadly as a gun for a certain amount of time.

 

Keep your opinions on israel/Palestine to yourself.

[Kobathor]

-snip-

That thing he said was per state, not in the world. Also, just cause gun crime is higher here doesn't mean other crime is. Murder rates are still high in other places, just less guns since they're harder to get. Again, look at England.

[thekeemo]

That thing he said was per state, not in the world. Also, just cause gun crime is higher here doesn't mean other crime is. Murder rates are still high in other places, just less guns since they're harder to get. Again, look at England.

Less access to guns = less ability to murder

 

EDIT: Why would you compare with other states? Thats like saying I got 30% on the last test but I got 40% this time. That makes it a good mark right?

[SImoHayha]

 

True the facts are true. But we can change, many states don't require permits for the most of time. If we added more laws so that way permits are required for every firearm am sure killings would go down. 

 

Seems that California and Texas have the most killings out of most states

 

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-20/table_20_murder_by_state_types_of_weapons_2013.xls

[SImoHayha]

Less access to guns = less ability to murder

Not necessarily.

 

There are other ways to kill, knifes, bats, cars, etc.

[thekeemo]

Not necessarily.

 

There are other ways to kill, knifes, bats, cars, etc.

I see what you did there....

 

True BUT guns, or rather lack thereof, would make it harder.

[Kobathor]

Less access to guns = less ability to murder

Uhhh.. Not really. If people wanted to murder with no guns, they totally could. In theory, if you had a gun illegally, it would be easier to murder.

[Kalle Hänninen]

You wouldn't contest a bear without a gun, but you would contest a man with a gun.

[thekeemo]

Uhhh.. Not really. If people wanted to murder with no guns, they totally could. In theory, if you had a gun illegally, it would be easier to murder.

But NOT having a gun at all makes it harder.

[Jack.EXE]

As someone with fairly decent training in 2 martial arts (Karate & Tae Kwon Do), various self defense training, unarmed Gun defense training, as well as marksmanship, I can tell you this with fair certainty.

 

Unless the guy has a revolver, which tends to be a very fine trigger, you stand a good chance of knocking the gun off target with a lower right to upper left push on the barrel, which would give you enough time to knee or kick the gunman, allowing you to grab the gun and turn it on him.

 

Obviously, I have training on this, and it would be far easier for me to preform this than your average person, but the statistics are still in your favor, with nearly a 70% success rate among untrained testers (in a controlled environment)

 

Of course, you cannot help those in the shooting who have already died, but I wish to inform you of this, in case any of you ever get in this situation.

 

The real issue is fear. They were afraid. Again, I have stated many times that I do not fear death, and have pretty much accepted that if I get into this situation and don't do anything, I would die anyway, so I would have nothing to lose.

 

I'd fight.

[Kalle Hänninen]

As someone with fairly decent training in 2 martial arts (Karate & Tae Kwon Do), various self defense training, unarmed Gun defense training, as well as marksmanship, I can tell you this with fair certainty.

 

Unless the guy has a revolver, which tends to be a very fine trigger, you stand a good chance of knocking the gun off target with a lower right to upper left push on the barrel, which would give you enough time to knee or kick the gunman, allowing you to grab the gun and turn it on him.

 

Obviously, I have training on this, and it would be far easier for me to preform this than your average person, but the statistics are still in your favor, with nearly a 70% success rate among untrained testers (in a controlled environment)

 

Of course, you cannot help those in the shooting who have already died, but I wish to inform you of this, in case any of you ever get in this situation.

 

The real issue is fear. They were afraid. Again, I have stated many times that I do not fear death, and have pretty much accepted that if I get into this situation and don't do anything, I would die anyway, so I would have nothing to lose.

 

I'd fight.

You would have absolutely zero chance if you would try to disarm me. (I've developed fairly good intuition on who poses a threat and who doesn't. And yes, I've been held-up at gun point. I just looked him in the eyes and once I thought he's not going to shoot, I turned to see the view from the window.)

[Jack.EXE]

You would have absolutely zero chance if you would try to disarm me.

I'd bet money on my victory.

[SImoHayha]

I'd bet money on my victory.

I'd bet my money on using a garbage can and roll into you both