The enemy is back Throttle Issues

[Coldfusionstorm]

UPDATE: (24-02-2016)

Alright so ,i exchanged the board now to a Sabertooth as per @Benji_w's suggestion ,It seems i was suffering from multiple

problems, firstly i had some BSOD's. I troubleshooted them, and it seems one ram stick was faulty. I changed it and had only had one BSOD since then.  And it seems the system is stable overall with the new board.

And i get a temperature for both the CPU and the mainboard with HWmonitor now. i have not run extensive test's yet but i will at sometime. (mainboard do seem to reflect the general temperature of the heatsink on the board.
The guy who should help me did come around with a Multi meter but it was out of batteries, and due to workload, we never got around to it, i lost the r390, so, the load should not matter anyway.

I DO have a nasty problem with booting, sometimes the system will boot and simply drop dead, after this it just boot up normally, i have made a new "appointment" with the him about looking at the PSU, And it seems my watercooling setup is not sufficient. i got a new case for my pc(might already have told this), and it's on my desktop and is more noisy. i used quite a bit of money on the new motherboard, and as such im now considering pulling the plug on doing anything else on this pc and just save up for building a entire new PC.

 

Building a new loop with a new rad and block might be a option but my pump is now contaminated from the old loop so...

I think building a new loop might be the way, still have some tube around, and the Vario pump can be cleaned, if i do it correctly. I use a silver stick as a kill coil BTW, seems to work okay so far.

 

 

 

UPDATE: (10-01-16).
So i'm still messing around with this, The vario pump does not sound that bad anymore, perhaps it was / is just airbubbles getting out of the loop, I'm currently stuck at 4Ghz, and im getting Random BSOD's, these seems very random and i simply suspect the ram since they are rather old.

To be honest i think the board is a great board, But my conclusion is
1.Vregs getting too hot. Most likely
2.PSU is getting old and not able to sustain a continued load

3.New ram issue might be tied to the PSU.

In worst case senario it might be all these issues are from the motherboard.

4.the motherborad (still very unlikely).

I got rid of the R9-390STRIX. Since the CPU was the bottleneck anyway and the PSU was properly going to need a exchange anyway.

As of right now i'm considering simply waiting for the zen architecture and then build a entire new system. (this is a upgraded build).

 

 

 

UPDATE: (14/12/15)
I have Narrowed the problem down to Vreg's overheating. The results are pretty consistent, whenever Speedfan reports over 80C on CPU the Voltage drops to 0.8 and Speeds to 1,3Ghz, Both Radiator, CPU block and tubes are cool.

Both CPUID HWmonitor and CoreTemp reports fair temperatures. 48 and below. These are DTS based programs so they should be getting accurate results and the fact that they both report the same max temperature during load seems to confirm this.

 

By changing fan direction to blow down over the Vreg's im able to slow down the rise of heat from Vregs and i can run the test for longer, however since the fan this way also blows over the CPU, this could be moot.

 

things ive tried.
1. putting a cooler block on top of the Vreg cooler, but was properly too clunky to do any different (and it did not seem to do any either)

do note i had to take the heatsink off the board for fitting it with strips. (thermal padding was used for the sink), i did not change it.

2.Changed direction of fan (still working on different fan flows.)

3.Bought a new cabinet to try to manage the airflow better since the old case was essentially just a testbed with open sides.

 

NOTE: My newly acquired Vario pump have begun making odd noises, almost like light metal grinding. This increases with speed.

NOTE: i do NOT currently have the STRIX 390 installed, So it "should" not be a PSU voltage issue either.

 

Pictures below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ORIGINAL POST BELOW
 

Alright, So i built a machine i want to stream with.

AMD-9590 unlocked.
8GB ram.
R9-390 Strix (Because it's badass].

PSU 750W Antec Truepower it got 4 25A Rails so it is a quality PSU, and should be enough. However it is old and im running out of options.

 

And this is my 4G connection
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4719090151

And.....I want to stream heroes of the storm but im getting abysmal results link incomming
http://www.twitch.tv/coldfusionstorm

But im getting bad FPS at full HD, ive built the machine for expansion with crossfire later, But 
i can't get good stutterfree gameplay first i thought it was Throttleing but then i downloaded Hardware monitor wich has a really good reputation AFAIK, but it shows completely different temp's than Speedfan. 


Here's a pic of my PC during a Torture test, Wich runs......great, but i can't get a good quality stream going the CPU should have plenty of juice for streaming but it feels like it throttles, but temps during 100% Stress testing seems good, And both CPU load and GPU load During gaming seems eradict. 



I have also linked and attached the Torture test picture to this post.

I could really use some advice on this as al i want is a good quality HoTS stream 

HALP ME!

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Coldfusionstorm
Added a new update.

[arniks8]

Stuttering probably is caused by your CPU. AFAIK you shouldn't have problems with streaming, but for gaming FX CPU's aren't great/sufficient ( for those who don't accept stuttering and fps drops ).

[Blackie Sheen]

Its probably the cpu. Current generation AMD cpus are not well suited for gaming which is why you are experiencing stuttering while gaming. However, streaming should be a breeze for that cpu.

[Egad]

Heroes is a very CPU intensive game, if you spend some time on Blizzard's forums you'll see people complaining about having stutters on better processors than the FX series.  Your best bet is likely to cap your framerate, go to Documents/Heroes of the Storm and edit your Variables.txt:

 

frameratecap=30

frameratecapglue=30

 

First option is in game cap, second one is in menu cap.  You can play with different numbers between 30 and 60 and see what works for your rig.  

[D2ultima]

AMD CPUs are terrible for streaming and gaming on the same PC unless you know exactly what you're doing.

 

Try this: when you launch OBS, set its processor affinity in Task Manager to use only cores 2 through 8, and ignore core 1 (if core 1 is core #0, then set it for 1-7, etc). Heroes is a single-threaded game because fuck blizzard. See how much that improves your framerates.

 

When you're done, sell that waste-of-money 9590 and buy a god damn i7 if you intend to stream and have a good time.

[Mew]

Your cpu is throttling under prime95. The first column on the right side of hwmonitor shows your current numbers and your cpu is running at 1.4ghz on all cores. I can't see your cpu temps as speedfan (isn't that good anymore since it can't seem to read anything correctly) is blocking it, but I have a feeling it's pretty high.

 

Edit: Oh and don't use Furmark because the drivers are going to throttle your clocks like crazy so you won't get the real picture of how hot it runs in an actual game or the clock rates it's going to get in an actual game.

[Nena Trinity]

AMD CPUs are terrible for streaming and gaming on the same PC unless you know exactly what you're doing.

 

Try this: when you launch OBS, set its processor affinity in Task Manager to use only cores 2 through 8, and ignore core 1 (if core 1 is core #0, then set it for 1-7, etc). Heroes is a single-threaded game because fuck blizzard. See how much that improves your framerates.

 

When you're done, sell that waste-of-money 9590 and buy a god damn i7 if you intend to stream and have a good time.

FX is a good streaming CPU... But yes i7 is better...

[Nena Trinity]

Alright, So i built a machine i want to stream with.

AMD-9590 unlocked.

8GB ram.

R9-390 Strix (Because it's badass].

PSU 750W Antec Truepower it got 4 25A Rails so it is a quality PSU, and should be enough. However it is old and im running out of options.

 

And this is my 4G connection

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4719090151

And.....I want to stream heroes of the storm but im getting abysmal results link incomming

http://www.twitch.tv/coldfusionstorm

But im getting bad FPS at full HD, ive built the machine for expansion with crossfire later, But 

i can't get good stutterfree gameplay first i thought it was Throttleing but then i downloaded Hardware monitor wich has a really good reputation AFAIK, but it shows completely different temp's than Speedfan. 

Here's a pic of my PC during a Torture test, Wich runs......great, but i can't get a good quality stream going the CPU should have plenty of juice for streaming but it feels like it throttles, but temps during 100% Stress testing seems good, And both CPU load and GPU load During gaming seems eradict. 

I have also linked and attached the Torture test picture to this post.

I could really use some advice on this as al i want is a good quality HoTS stream 

HALP ME!

Try to use AMD Overdrive and see what it says about thermal margin...

 

Is this your motherboard?

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty%20990FX%20Professional/

Cause if it is I think you need to rethink this cause the FX-9590 uses 225W and that board is CLEARLY marked 140W...

[D2ultima]

FX is a good streaming CPU... But yes i7 is better...

They're as good for streaming as an overclockable i5. But unlike the i5, their single-threaded performance is shit. The difference is when it takes up a lot of the CPU, single-thread-heavy games get supremely starved for power. Hence why forcing streaming programs to not use the thread that a game is using results in such a good experience.

 

In a streaming PC? I'd leave them. In a gaming PC? You better know exactly what the hell you're doing if you want to run an AMD CPU. And clearly, this user does not know exactly what the hell he's doing, or he wouldn't be here asking =D.

 

Also his CPU is throttling like crazy in P95. Can't say a stream would use as much power or generate as much heat as P95... but pretty damn close if you do it right. So he could be throttling while streaming too.

[Nena Trinity]

They're as good for streaming as an overclockable i5. But unlike the i5, their single-threaded performance is shit. The difference is when it takes up a lot of the CPU, single-thread-heavy games get supremely starved for power. Hence why forcing streaming programs to not use the thread that a game is using results in such a good experience.

 

In a streaming PC? I'd leave them. In a gaming PC? You better know exactly what the hell you're doing if you want to run an AMD CPU. And clearly, this user does not know exactly what the hell he's doing, or he wouldn't be here asking =D.

 

Also his CPU is throttling like crazy in P95. Can't say a stream would use as much power or generate as much heat as P95... but pretty damn close if you do it right. So he could be throttling while streaming too.

I just do fine with mine, barely had to do any tweaking, but in this guys case the problem seems to be the motherboard...

[ApolloX75]

@Coldfusionstorm

Your 9590 is throttling under load, the frequency readings tell the story plain as day. Also look at your vCore in HWmonitor it shows 0.89v while Prime95 is running.

Your motherboard is insufficient for a 9590 as @Nena360 pointed out earlier. You need a high end 990FX board with a high grade VRM setup. The likely culprit here is your motherboard is falling flat when the CPU demands it's voltage under a constant load.

Gotta step up that hardware if you want to roll with the big bad 9590.

[D2ultima]

I just do fine with mine, barely had to do any tweaking, but in this guys case the problem seems to be the motherboard...

I know people with AMD chips who can get by fine. But I know more who have problems, by an order of magnitude.

[Nena Trinity]

I know people with AMD chips who can get by fine. But I know more who have problems, by an order of magnitude.

The problem is people buy wrong board with wrong chip, but yeah some games the CPU cannot give the X amount of draw-calls to because there is to much junk on the screen. This should be better in DX12 and Vulkan. Yet even if the CPU is held back by DX11 it still does not lag or stutter on mine like many here seems to get in loads! I just re-downloaded DayZ and well the FPS rating kinda sucks going from min of 25 to avg of 35 and max at 45... But still very playable and I may see some lag spike every 10-20 minutes or so but its no problem really.

[Coldfusionstorm]

@arniks8
Do you have a link for this specific claim, FX have a reputation for good performance in Multithreaded apps, And this is a Beast of a CPU who should really be enough for streaming and playing anything but the most hardcore settings

@Blackie Sheen
Yes for Applications that only use singlethreaded processes Intels lineup is much better,Inverse Hyperthreading should make this lead even bigger, Hopefully AMD can figure out a similar technique.

 

@Egad

Thanks i has been looking but not so closely, Thanks for informing i will try this, Also i figured out part of my problem.(aprantly you have to use correct mounting screws to secure the cooler block to the cpu psssh).
Thanks a ton for the tips, i can't wait to test it out.

@D2ultima
Thanks i was not aware it was so badly optimised for Multithreading, Thanks a ton for the tip, I will def try it out.
If i get a good offer i will properly sell it. But i im slighty AMD biased, And FU blizzard for not optimizing HoTS.
i will still try to get a good time with this setup im sure i can be done.

@kurahk7
Thanks, i Totally missed that. Derp.....i feel like a idiot now
Yes, My temps was hitting 80C, @ 4.7 , i even had BSOD once, But i fixed that. it seems a water cooling block works best when it's mounted. Again Derp.

Thanks for the tip on Furmark, My STRIX R9-390OC was Throttleing as well, i installed Asus Tweaktool and it began working, WIch resulted in a fan blade breaking off. i looked it up im not the only one not the same card but same design
https://www.google.com/search?q=STRIX+fan+blade+broken&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

@Nena360

Yes exactly, My thoughts too, also the naming scheme is bad ass FX-9590 Unlocked! RAWWWR!

@Nena360
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty%20990FX%20Professional/?cat=CPU
This is the CPU list from the board you linked (wich isn't my board). and AM3+ FD9590FHW8KHK is listed as compatible
it also uses 220W and not 225W
Am i missing something obvious here?

@D2ultima
Ive already replyed to this feedback, Thanks a ton for helping, I can't wait to show you all a Full HD Stream (Hopefully @60FPS in Either Youtube or when Twitch supports it).
@Nena360
Good to know somebody have good experinces with the 9590FX.
but it isn't the board this is my board
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty%20970%20Performance3.1/?cat=CPU
(Let me doubble check , This is a long post)

 

@ApolloX75
Thanks, i don't know how i missed that, Yeah i was suspecting my PSU a bit as it does have a odd noise to it.
Also where do you get the board info from? This is my board
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty%20970%20Performance3.1/
This board seems to be fully capable of supporting the 9590FX, Unless im missing something obviously.

@D2ultima
Yeah, AMD chips aint for the faint of heart . But that's what makes it fun.

 

@Nena360
You have talked about the wrong board alot but im not sure you've seen my board, Check my ealier reply.
THIS is my board
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty%20970%20Performance3.1/

You also talk about draw calls and junk, Could you link to some of the tests that support these theories about this?

@Everybody
Thanks for taking the time to view my thread, and msg me. And generally being super nice, Helpfull.
Unfortunately my STRIX R9-390 Broke a fan, and im waiting for a replacement, But you have all been very helpfull in helping.


The current diagnosis is
1.Throttle issues, The CPU is getting too hot even after correctly mounting. This needs a solution properly new high flow fans, (looking at these fans)(Danish website but specs in english)
http://www.coolerkit.dk/shop/akasa-viper-pwm-4056p.html
2.Bad waterblock (old and flow may be obstucted)
3. Might be a old and unstable PSU.

4.i suspect at least in the test bed that the VRM does not gets too hot and thus cannot provide a proper voltage.

 

I will report back with my results when ive tried peoples solutions.(besides mounting the cooler correctly).
keep you posted on my progress.

[Nena Trinity]

xxx

http://www.hardware-boom.com/asrock-fatal1ty-970-performance/

A reference to the official website of «Supports 220W AMD FX-9590 & FX-9370 CPUs» is not nothing but a smile. No work, it will be – it all depends on what the meaning of the word “work” we have seen, it corresponds to reality statement «Digi Power, 8 + 2 Power Phase Design». In practice, the most that can be expected in terms of serious overclocking with this motherboard – AMD FX-6300 and those close to him. And then – depending on how you are lucky with the voltage required for specific instances. The only thing that can be noted positively – it overclock the RAM to the effective frequency of 2133 MHz. That, however, in contrast to the same Trinity and Kaveri (Socket FM2 / FM2 +), tied to the integrated graphics core for Vishera Bulldozer and special not profit.

[Benji_w]

Alright, So i built a machine i want to stream with.

AMD-9590 unlocked.

8GB ram.

R9-390 Strix (Because it's badass].

PSU 750W Antec Truepower it got 4 25A Rails so it is a quality PSU, and should be enough. However it is old and im running out of options.

 

And this is my 4G connection

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4719090151

And.....I want to stream heroes of the storm but im getting abysmal results link incomming

http://www.twitch.tv/coldfusionstorm

But im getting bad FPS at full HD, ive built the machine for expansion with crossfire later, But 

i can't get good stutterfree gameplay first i thought it was Throttleing but then i downloaded Hardware monitor wich has a really good reputation AFAIK, but it shows completely different temp's than Speedfan. 

Here's a pic of my PC during a Torture test, Wich runs......great, but i can't get a good quality stream going the CPU should have plenty of juice for streaming but it feels like it throttles, but temps during 100% Stress testing seems good, And both CPU load and GPU load During gaming seems eradict. 

I have also linked and attached the Torture test picture to this post.

I could really use some advice on this as al i want is a good quality HoTS stream 

HALP ME!

 

What motherboard?

 

 

Stuttering probably is caused by your CPU. AFAIK you shouldn't have problems with streaming, but for gaming FX CPU's aren't great/sufficient ( for those who don't accept stuttering and fps drops ).

 

I do both when my internet permits, no stuttering, no problems gaming, no fps drops or stuttering.

[Benji_w]

Its probably the cpu. Current generation AMD cpus are not well suited for gaming which is why you are experiencing stuttering while gaming. However, streaming should be a breeze for that cpu.

 

Misinformation this generation is a lot worse than the AMDs at gaming...

[Benji_w]

http://www.hardware-boom.com/asrock-fatal1ty-970-performance/

A reference to the official website of «Supports 220W AMD FX-9590 & FX-9370 CPUs» is not nothing but a smile. No work, it will be – it all depends on what the meaning of the word “work” we have seen, it corresponds to reality statement «Digi Power, 8 + 2 Power Phase Design». In practice, the most that can be expected in terms of serious overclocking with this motherboard – AMD FX-6300 and those close to him. And then – depending on how you are lucky with the voltage required for specific instances. The only thing that can be noted positively – it overclock the RAM to the effective frequency of 2133 MHz. That, however, in contrast to the same Trinity and Kaveri (Socket FM2 / FM2 +), tied to the integrated graphics core for Vishera Bulldozer and special not profit.

 

Either the Forumla Z or the Sabretooth. any other board and you will struggle at those temps, why? VRM and socket will both throttle you CPU to stop damage.

[Benji_w]

OMFG I'VE JUST SEEN YOUR BOARD!!!!

 

TAKE OUT THAT FX CHIP RIGHT NOW AND GO BUY AN ASUS BOARD BEFORE YOU BOARD BLOWS UP AND KILLS THE FX CPU!!!!!!!!

[JustCallMeVlad]

IMO 750W is not enough power for that setup. 

 

9590 - 328w under full load

390 - 323w in Furmark 

[Coldfusionstorm]

@Nena360

Seriously?, So i bought this board specifically for this CPU and it does not even work proprely under load?.
What your're saying is ive been taken in the ass?. im not even talking overclocking just running it at the rated 4.7 Clock.
...Sigh.....

@Benji_w

Thanks for your input, That's a pretty strong reaction to my board.
ehmm, What am i missing in the tech specs here for proper support for my CPU?, And i do not actually assume that there

is any actual danger to my CPU?. If it can console you it's only running @ 4.0Ghz Right now. Since that's where i can keep it stable and cool.

 

@JustCallMeVlad

Where the hell do you get those values from?
9590FX Black

• Frequency: 4.7/5.0GHZ (Base/Overdrive)
• Cores: 8
• Cache: 8/8MB (L2/L3)
• Socket Type: AM3+
• Power Wattage: 220W

Am i just a total idiot for trusting these specs?
even adjusting for 25% exstra juice usage over these specs, There should be plenty of wattage left for the rest of the system.
Where do you get these values from?. I just want to know where you get these specs from? they do seem to be more accurate than what im building from since i can't get my shit stable.....


Again,@Everybody Thanks for your continued support and help, It is very much apriciated.

i can live with doing stupid shit, i just don't want to do it twice!

[Coldfusionstorm]

I just noted a extra note on the CPU support webpage
* For cooling the CPU and its surrounding components, please install a CPU cooler with a top-down blowing design.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty%20970%20Performance/?cat=CPU

So basically at least now i know the voltage regulators was overheating.
Ive already halfway fixed this as i noticed the cover over them was getting so hot.

so i smacked a 80m fan over and did @30% speed on it.(seems to be working for now at least @4.0 ghz)

Ive also killed windows defender as it was using 10-20% CPU time o,0

[arniks8]

I do both when my internet permits, no stuttering, no problems gaming, no fps drops or stuttering.

I didn't say that there would be a problem in streaming performance, but stuttering in games is caused by his MB, but FX isn't good for gaming.

[arniks8]

@Nena360

Seriously?, So i bought this board specifically for this CPU and it does not even work proprely under load?.

What your're saying is ive been taken in the ass?. im not even talking overclocking just running it at the rated 4.7 Clock.

...Sigh.....

@Benji_w

Thanks for your input, That's a pretty strong reaction to my board.

ehmm, What am i missing in the tech specs here for proper support for my CPU?, And i do not actually assume that there

is any actual danger to my CPU?. If it can console you it's only running @ 4.0Ghz Right now. Since that's where i can keep it stable and cool.

@JustCallMeVlad

Where the hell do you get those values from?

9590FX Black

• Frequency: 4.7/5.0GHZ (Base/Overdrive)
• Cores: 8
• Cache: 8/8MB (L2/L3)
• Socket Type: AM3+
• Power Wattage: 220W

Am i just a total idiot for trusting these specs?

even adjusting for 25% exstra juice usage over these specs, There should be plenty of wattage left for the rest of the system.

Where do you get these values from?. I just want to know where you get these specs from? they do seem to be more accurate than what im building from since i can't get my shit stable.....

Again,@Everybody Thanks for your continued support and help, It is very much apriciated.

i can live with doing stupid shit, i just don't want to do it twice!

He got those values from actual reviews of components. FX9xxx can use bizarre amount of power and so can non reference PCB AMD cards.

[Coldfusionstorm]

I tried running just Prime95
setting maximum heat.

Before
http://postimg.org/image/sd2wj62dl/5e947c46/

After

http://postimg.org/image/7jez6oxt9/d2d5cfb6/

And this is after 10 seconds, But the Water cooling block is not hot at all, And neither is rad is only slighty hot.

However the area around the CPU is burning up, but i can almost get a finger into the CPU without getting burnt. i guess the topdown note about even with the 80MM fan it does not seem to improve. Im Throughly stumped here. It just seems impossible to remove the heat from the voltage regulators. .
Also do note the difference in heat in CPUID HWmonitor.

Im thinking the speedfan is reading some value from a motherboard sensor that "feels" the heat from the voltage regulators and CPUID HWmonitor. is reading the actual CPU heat.

Or a faulty PSU messing my motherboard up .