Thinking about upgrading the audio for my PC

[Orion3234]

So my speakers have been giving me issues and I'm thinking I'm gonna just upgrade the whole sound system, speakers and get a discrete sound card for it. Trouble is, I'mnot sure where to begin...

 

I know the type of card I want, the Asus Xonar brand but which one? I'd love to have the Asus Xonar Phoebus but I'd rather not drop more than $200 USD on a sound card if possible... Also, what are some good 5.1 speakers for Gaming? That's what I do the most with my system so I really want to get good speakers and a good card for that.

[johnt]

So my speakers have been giving me issues and I'm thinking I'm gonna just upgrade the whole sound system, speakers and get a discrete sound card for it. Trouble is, I'mnot sure where to begin...

 

I know the type of card I want, the Asus Xonar brand but which one? I'd love to have the Asus Xonar Phoebus but I'd rather not drop more than $200 USD on a sound card if possible... Also, what are some good 5.1 speakers for Gaming? That's what I do the most with my system so I really want to get good speakers and a good card for that.

 

What makes you think you need a new sound card to get better sound?

[RazrLeaf]

1. I second @JohnT's question.

What do you have now?

Are you dead set on a sound card? Because there are plenty of other solutions that offer better price/performance...

[Orion3234]

 

1. I second @JohnT's question.
2. What do you have now?
3. Are you dead set on a sound card? Because there are plenty of other solutions that offer better price/performance...

 

1. Good point.

2. I'm using the motherboard's on-board sound.

3. Not completely but I'd like something that's better than what I have but supports the same 5.1/7.1 speaker set ups.

 

Motherboard: Gigabyte 970A-DS3P

Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128602&cm_re=gigabyte_970a-ds3p-_-13-128-602-_-Product

[Stagea]

So my speakers have been giving me issues and I'm thinking I'm gonna just upgrade the whole sound system, speakers and get a discrete sound card for it. Trouble is, I'mnot sure where to begin...

 

I know the type of card I want, the Asus Xonar brand but which one? I'd love to have the Asus Xonar Phoebus but I'd rather not drop more than $200 USD on a sound card if possible... Also, what are some good 5.1 speakers for Gaming? That's what I do the most with my system so I really want to get good speakers and a good card for that.

 

The Xonar DX may be worth a look; spend the rest of the money on good speakers (unless you're already allocating a big amount of money for your speakers). 

[ShearMe]

Typically better to use an AVR and real speakers. Those boxed systems with tiny satellites are silly.

[spwath]

Typically better to use an AVR and real speakers. Those boxed systems with tiny satellites are silly.

Yeah, they have like 1" woofers.

And the subwoofer is like 8" max

[Orion3234]

Yeah, they have like 1" woofers.

And the subwoofer is like 8" max

Yea, not the strongest of sound.  Also, I like your avatar dude. Fan-tastic.

 

 

The Xonar DX may be worth a look; spend the rest of the money on good speakers (unless you're already allocating a big amount of money for your speakers). 

Yea, I looked at it on Newegg and it's definitely at a better price point.. Still may budget for like $150 to $200 so I can get a really good pair of speakers along with it.

[RazrLeaf]

3. Not completely but I'd like something that's better than what I have but supports the same 5.1/7.1 speaker set ups.

Welp then my thoughts are useless. I'm a 2.0 guy. It's simpler, cheaper, and gives me more options. And I only have 2 ears.

[KaminKevCrew]

Yea, not the strongest of sound.

 

 

Yea, I looked at it on Newegg and it's definitely at a better price point.. Still may budget for like $150 to $200 so I can get a really good pair of speakers along with it.

 

$200 won't get you a "really good" set of speakers, especially if you insist on 5.1 surround. For 2.0, you can get some decent speakers, but nothing that I would really call "really good"...

Welp then my thoughts are useless. I'm a 2.0 guy. It's simpler, cheaper, and gives me more options. And I only have 2 ears.

The two ears argument really only works for headphones. Having surround sound speakers does make sense, because they are actually placed around you, and your right ear can hear the speakers on the left and vice versa.

[RazrLeaf]

$200 won't get you a "really good" set of speakers, especially if you insist on 5.1 surround. For 2.0, you can get some decent speakers, but nothing that I would really call "really good"...

The two ears argument really only works for headphones. Having surround sound speakers does make sense, because they are actually placed around you, and your right ear can hear the speakers on the left and vice versa.

I disagree, as I've experienced tracks and games that can with actual special imaging out of a 2.0 setup. But the biggest advantages of 2.0 and 2.1 speakers are cost and simplicity for me.

[KaminKevCrew]

I disagree, as I've experienced tracks and games that can with actual special imaging out of a 2.0 setup. But the biggest advantages of 2.0 and 2.1 speakers are cost and simplicity for me.

"Special" imaging, huh? (I tease)

 

I don't disagree that you can get spacial imaging with 2.0, I've gotten that from speakers myself. But tell me this, can you tell when something is behind you as opposed to in front of you with a 2.0 setup? I highly doubt it, and that's where surround comes in. 

 

As for cost, I'm pretty sure you can actually spend more on stereo speakers than you can on a surround setup, but that's kind of beside the point, as they do offer lower cost units as well, and those also have much better sound than equivalently priced surround setups.

[RazrLeaf]

I don't disagree that you can get spacial imaging with 2.0, I've gotten that from speakers myself. But tell me this, can you tell when something is behind you as opposed to in front of you with a 2.0 setup? I highly doubt it, and that's where surround comes in. 

You actually can if the sound is created/recorded right. If you think about your ears as well, the only way they can tell if something is in front of or behind you is by how it sounds reflecting and distorting off the contours of your ear. If those same distortions are mimicked in the audio, then sounds coming from a speaker in front of you can sound like they're coming from behind you. It's this principle that drives virtual surround.

[KaminKevCrew]

You actually can if the sound is created/recorded right. If you think about your ears as well, the only way they can tell if something is in front of or behind you is by how it sounds reflecting and distorting off the contours of your ear. If those same distortions are mimicked in the audio, then sounds coming from a speaker in front of you can sound like they're coming from behind you. It's this principle that drives virtual surround.

I'm well aware of how that works. However, I would posit that there is a significant difference in the ability for something that is physically in front of you, as opposed to the headphone version, where the drivers are not only directly to the side of each ear, but also isolated from each other. 

@SSL and @ShearMe, can you guys provide some input here? I'm very curious as to whether or not I'm wrong on this one...

[ShearMe]

I'm well aware of how that works. However, I would posit that there is a significant difference in the ability for something that is physically in front of you, as opposed to the headphone version, where the drivers are not only directly to the side of each ear, but also isolated from each other.

@SSL and @ShearMe, can you guys provide some input here? I'm very curious as to whether or not I'm wrong on this one...

Virtual surround in a headphone works for some people better than surround speakers. It can't possibly adapt itself to each individual's HRTF and won't work the same for everyone, however.

[KaminKevCrew]

Virtual surround in a headphone works for some people better than surround speakers. It can't possibly adapt itself to each individual's HRTF and won't work the same for everyone, however.

We are debating whether or not virtual surround will work with 2.0/2.1 speakers, not surround/headphones so much

[ShearMe]

We are debating whether or not virtual surround will work with 2.0/2.1 speakers, not surround/headphones so much [emoji14]

Oh. There once was a time where they made something that was supposed to bounce sound off a back wall. Dunno how they implemented it or if it worked.

Virtual surround designed for headphones puts in crosstalk you would normally get with speakers, so using it on speakers gives you even more crosstalk. As for the front/rear axis I'm not sure.

[KaminKevCrew]

Oh. There once was a time where they made something that was supposed to bounce sound off a back wall. Dunno how they implemented it or if it worked.

Virtual surround designed for headphones puts in crosstalk you would normally get with speakers, so using it on speakers gives you even more crosstalk. As for the front/rear axis I'm not sure.

Yeah. I've never had one of those moments when listening to speakers where I look behind me because the song played a trick on me, so that's why I don't think it's a thing.

[spwath]

Yeah. I've never had one of those moments when listening to speakers where I look behind me because the song played a trick on me, so that's why I don't think it's a thing.

Yeah, in arma 3, I hear crickets behind me, and I turn around. That won't happen without rear speakers

[KaminKevCrew]

Yeah, in arma 3, I hear crickets behind me, and I turn around. That won't happen without rear speakers

Yup. That or nice headphones.

[SSL]

I'm well aware of how that works. However, I would posit that there is a significant difference in the ability for something that is physically in front of you, as opposed to the headphone version, where the drivers are not only directly to the side of each ear, but also isolated from each other. 

can you guys provide some input here? I'm very curious as to whether or not I'm wrong on this one...

 

How do you know that something is physically in front of you? Answer: your HRTF.

 

Positional audio occurs due to timing differences between the ears, and differences in frequency response due to the masking/reflection/filtering of the pinnae, head, and shoulders. All of these effects can be realized with headphones because with headphones it is possible to completely control the frequency response at the eardrum. In fact, headphones are necessary for the effect to be functional at all.

 

As I'm sure you know, bass is not localized because low frequencies do not respond to diffraction and masking effects as high frequencies do. Timing differences are also lost due to the long wavelength.

 

The problem is that perfect binaural audio requires a custom HRTF to match the listener. Not only that, but the HRTF must be preserved by the FR of the headphone, which means that the HRTF would only work for one person and one set of headphones. Obviously this is not practical to do on a large scale with consumer-grade equipment. So instead we get stuff like Razer Surround and Dolby Headphone. From what I can tell, these virtual surround algorithms work by exaggerating the most universally applicable aspects of an HRTF, like masking. They also exaggerate fake effects such as reverb. Ultimately that leaves us with a one size doesn't fit anybody scenario.

[Orion3234]

How do you know that something is physically in front of you? Answer: your HRTF.

 

Positional audio occurs due to timing differences between the ears, and differences in frequency response due to the masking/reflection/filtering of the pinnae, head, and shoulders. All of these effects can be realized with headphones because with headphones it is possible to completely control the frequency response at the eardrum. In fact, headphones are necessary for the effect to be functional at all.

 

As I'm sure you know, bass is not localized because low frequencies do not respond to diffraction and masking effects as high frequencies do. Timing differences are also lost due to the long wavelength.

 

The problem is that perfect binaural audio requires a custom HRTF to match the listener. Not only that, but the HRTF must be preserved by the FR of the headphone, which means that the HRTF would only work for one person and one set of headphones. Obviously this is not practical to do on a large scale with consumer-grade equipment. So instead we get stuff like Razer Surround and Dolby Headphone. From what I can tell, these virtual surround algorithms work by exaggerating the most universally applicable aspects of an HRTF, like masking. They also exaggerate fake effects such as reverb. Ultimately that leaves us with a one size doesn't fit anybody scenario.

Wow! There's something new I didn't know before. I have to agree on the headphones because I have the Logitech G230 Red & Black edition and they sound really good when it comes to stuff like surround sound.

 

Also, I've noticed that games like Star Wars: The Old Republic use a directional audio when it comes to talking/dialogue because if I stand away and an NPC is off to my right and starts talking, I only hear him/her talking in the right ear's speaker. Likewise for the left ear... Which is pretty cool and it kinda helps with immersion. I have to be honest, this discussion's got me curious about which set of speakers I truly need...

 

Do I really need to go with a super expensive 5 speaker set or would a great sound card and a smaller 2-speaker set work? I've got the card nailed down on what I want which is the Asus Xonar DX which is under $100 but should I just get the card by itself now and save up for better speakers? This is of course assuming that the speakers don't go back to giving me trouble again... and yes, assumptions can be bad.

 

I ask because I have 2 2.0/2.1 speakers I've been eyeing:

 

1. the Genius SW-G2.1 1250 speaker set: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0056BPUQC/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=M9IO1TT0O391&coliid=I3PVE8UJKEADQL&psc=1

 

2. Genius SW-G2.1 2000 speaker set: http://www.amazon.com/Genius-SW-G2-1-2000-Subwoofer-Sattelite/dp/B00K5NYNWS/ref=sr_1_1_m?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1443919023&sr=1-1&keywords=genius+sw-g2.1+2000

 

I hear those are 2 good speakers with the 2000 series being voted number one on this list: http://www.consumertop.com/best-gaming-speakers/ I'm open to either and as long as the sound is a good gaming quality sound, I think I can persuade myself to come down from Surround Sound.

 

Speaking of Surround Sound, I'm eyeing these for the 5.1 choice:

Genius GX-Gaming 5.1 Surround Sound: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BJE3WEW/?tag=consumertop-20

 

To be honest, I think I like the red and black ones the best... Just not sure which set is truly the best one to get.

[sobe]

@Orion3234 Tell you what, pay the shipping cost via USPS and I will ship you an ASUS Xonar Phoebus since you had interest in one

 

This way it's only a small amount for the card, and you can throw the rest into getting actual audio gear to further improve your own setup

[Orion3234]

@Orion3234 Tell you what, pay the shipping cost via USPS and I will ship you an ASUS Xonar Phoebus since you had interest in one

Hmm... how much is shipping and handling?

[sobe]

Picture attached for proof of item

 

Luckily it fits in a PM flat rate small package which is $5.95, simply send me a PM here and I will send you paypal info and you can consider this yours come Monday when I can ship it out from Martin, TN.

 

 

Oh, and you may be asking why I would do this. I have a ZxR that replaced the Phoebus as my internal, so the Phoebus hasn't been used for almost a year now and has just been sitting doing nothing. So if you want it for the cost of shipping, it's yours.

 

*EDIT*

Please keep in mind, while I am sure it wouldn't have issues, I have not tested in Win10. The last system it was in had 8.1 and ran without issue.