FCC vs OpenWRT - installing custom FW on your WiFi router may become impossible

[zMeul]

source: http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/07/27/new-fcc-rules-may-prevent-installing-openwrt-on-wifi-routers/

this one boggles the mind, please sit down in case of spontaneous rage

 

“Wireless Battle of the Mesh” which will take place on August 3-8 in Maribor, Slovenia.

The talk scheduled for August 6 at 15:00 is entitled “openWRT vs. FCC – forced firmware lockdown?” and Simon Wunderlich, the speaker, provided the following abstract:

The new FCC rules are in effect in the United States from June 2nd 2015 for WiFi devices such as Access Points. They require to have the firmware locked down so End-Users can’t operate with non-compliant parameters (channels/frequencies, transmit power, DFS, …). In response, WiFi access point vendors start to lock down firmwares to prevent custom firmwares (such as OpenWRT) to be installed, using code signing, etc. Since the same type of devices are often sold world wide, this change does not only affect routers in the US, but also Europe, and this will also effect wireless communities.

We would like to discuss:

• What are your experiences with recently certified WiFi Hardware?
• How can we still keep OpenWRT on these devices?
• What can we suggest to Hardware vendors so that they keep their firmware open for community projects while still compliant with the FCC?

The rule in question is listed on the FCC website with the question “What are the software security requirements for non-SDR devices and what limitations apply to software configuration control for such devices?” and the critical part of the answer being “require all devices to implement software security to ensure that the devices operate as authorized and cannot be modified“.

 

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what the actual fuck?! I literally want to punch a kitten

what's next? PCs will come with Windows and only Windows will be allowed

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[zGamingzFix]

What happens if I want to build a router what firmware do install and what if I want to make my own firmware. They are Killing creativity and future businesses

[SurvivorNVL]

FCC, I love you for doing things amazingly as you did with the Net Neutrality ruling, and fighting the ISP's, but please.. don't shit on this.  I want to love you, and cherish you.  But not like this.  NOT LIKE THIS.

[LAwLz]

I get the rational behind it. There are strict regulations on which frequencies you are allowed to use and how much radiation devices are allowed to produce but come on FCC... This is basically punishing people for a crime before it has even been committed. Just because some people drive when drunk doesn't mean you should completely ban cars. Sure it will get rid of the drunk drivers but it is entirely possible to use a car without breaking the law, and when you do it's a very useful tool.

[toogamer]

source: http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/07/27/new-fcc-rules-may-prevent-installing-openwrt-on-wifi-routers/

this one boggles the mind, please sit down in case of spontaneous rage

 

 

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what the actual fuck?! I literally want to punch a kitten

what's next? PCs will come with Windows and only Windows will be allowed

Wait, so are they saying that the routers must have locked firmwares so that you could only use the included firmware? So does this mean I cannot put OPEN-WRT or DD-WRT on any routers anymore?

[zMeul]

Wait, so are they saying that the routers must have locked firmwares so that you could only use the included firmware? So does this mean I cannot put OPEN-WRT or DD-WRT on any routers anymore?

yep, that sums it up

[zMeul]

A lot of devices have similar features to make sure the firmware/software on the devices is secure. It has security benefits as the device will only boot when the software it is running is signed by the manufacturer. Most of the times the only signed software available is that provided by the manufacturer but there probably are some exceptions out there. As for the Windows example, that is known as Secure Boot which is a feature of UEFI. Again, this has security benefits but Microsoft are the only company that is guaranteeing that their key is in the key database that is used by the UEFI to determine if it will be handing over system control to a signed bootloader.

yes, but that's MS doing and the user still has the option to disable Secure Boot

[toogamer]

yep, that sums it up

Time to jump off of a cliff now.

[Speedbird]

Oh hell no! I know this is only supposed to affect the US, but router manufacturers are going to block it everywhere if they're gonna block it in the US.

[qwertywarrior]

looks like a US only thing

 

as far as i can tell they seem to be considered about frequencies here

why not lock down the radio driver down instead to not allow modifying it

 

making you own router is still a possibility

[Misanthrope]

And yet, creating your own with ever increasingly powerful and small NUC type devices is becoming more and more viable. I seriously doubt I will ever buy another router, I will just build my own.

[linuxfan66]

I get what they are thinking. creating out of spec consumer wireless transmitters is an issue. However why not lock the wifi chip down separately... At least in enthusiast models

[Sidiox]

Goddammit. Stuff like DD-WRT, Tomato, Gargoyle and Open-WRT are amazing. They shouldn't lock that shit down that is just annoying and not needed. Sure I get the rational, but how many people actually abuse the system?

[MoonSpot]

And yet, creating your own with ever increasingly powerful and small NUC type devices is becoming more and more viable. I seriously doubt I will ever buy another router, I will just build my own.

 

https://hak5.org/episodes/episode-718

 

Let's ask @Slick to try using a particularly weak NUC to make a freedom router and make a vid for LMG, just to see how it performs.

[Misanthrope]

I get the rational behind it. There are strict regulations on which frequencies you are allowed to use and how much radiation devices are allowed to produce but come on FCC... This is basically punishing people for a crime before it has even been committed. Just because some people drive when drunk doesn't mean you should completely ban cars. Sure it will get rid of the drunk drivers but it is entirely possible to use a car without breaking the law, and when you do it's a very useful tool.

 

Actually a better analogy would be that you can't repair your car anywhere but the dealership because you could modify your car to do dangerous things with it so nobody can modify the engine, breaks, suspension, nothing at all you just take your car to the dealership or buy a brand new one when it breaks down

[Beskamir]

What about building your own router with something like pfsense?

 

Anyways after the net neutrality thing I thought the FCC was on the side of the consumers but I guess that's somehow changed with this bullshit.

[captain cactus]

I had to actually downgrade my router's firmware because it was continually dropping connections with all of my devices. It has its uses which is what the FCC is currently not seeing.

[Master Disaster]

source: http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/07/27/new-fcc-rules-may-prevent-installing-openwrt-on-wifi-routers/this one boggles the mind, please sit down in case of spontaneous rage --- ---what the actual fuck?! I literally want to punch a kitten :(what's next? PCs will come with Windows and only Windows will be allowed---

Someone didn't get the OEM locking systems to Windows 10 with enforced Secure Boot memo.

Microsoft have stipulated that for OEM machines to get Designed For Windows 10 they must enforce secure boot at the UEFI level basically locking the machine to Win 10 (and maybe Win 8 if you wanted to downgrade)

[zMeul]

Someone didn't get the OEM locking systems to Windows 10 with enforced Secure Boot memo.

Microsoft have stipulated that for OEM machines to get Designed For Windows 10 they must enforce secure boot at the UEFI level basically locking the machine to Win 10 (and maybe Win 8 if you wanted to downgrade)

last time I checked the option was at the discretion of the OEMs

and no2: this is about FCC, a body of the US Government and not a private company - big difference

[mr moose]

Why don't they just physically limit the transmitters frequency and power rather than the software that operates it.  If they build the transmitter so it can only operate on 2.4 and 5 then no amount of software engineering will change that. 

 

Bunch of greedy pricks.