Low Ohm no amp or high Ohm with amp?

[Hugo Vedal]

So it is time for me to get a high quality pair of headphones. I'm looking at probably buying the Beyerdynamic DT990, not sure yet though. The thing is that I am not sure if it is really worth getting an amp. I am not going to use the new headphones as a daily driver though because I want open headphones. I travel a lot on very noisy public transportation, so my bose QC15's are still going to be the best for that. I'm going to use it mainly for home use at the computer or whenever I am inside. So the question is; would it be worth spending more money and getting an amp + the 250Ohm version or should I cheap out and just get the 32Ohm version? Obviously, the amp option would be better, but is it really noticeable?

 

Music will be played through my Xperia Z3 which has a 24-bit/192khz interface, and would getting a portable dac plugged in with usb improve the quality? The majority of the music I listen to are MP3 files.

[xtroria]

Amp amplifies the signal not changing the sound. 250 ohm dt990 is very easy to drive, just grab it and you dont need an amp

[rafazafar]

From my tests i find that the 250ohm has a darker background and with a good clean ampdac goes give better sound because of that reduction in noise and added bass clarity.
But since you are just using mp3 files anyway, i would say save yourself the trouble and get the 32ohm.

The Xperia's dac may be able to play 24/192 but the quality is nothing fantastic. Plus no MP3 is encoded at that rate.

So the more logical way to improve your sound is to use a good standalone music player like the Fiio X-series or an Android compatible portable ampdac (Fiio has one, Ibasso has one).

The single best way to increase sound quality is to find lossless music. 

Order of decreasing importance:

Source (as long as its lossless, dont matter what format)>Headphones>DAC>AMP>Cables>Snake oil? 

[HassanHD]

I have the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250ohms and it works quite well without an amp. I have the closed version so it's fairly loud at max volume but I could go a little higher say 10-20% extra and not any higher otherwise I won't be able to handle it and will probably damage my ears.

[Peter Vaughan Truslow]

it's really personal preference. I still like an amp with my 38 ohm headphones because without an amp, none of my devices can supply enough current to get the bass levels I like.

[Hugo Vedal]

From my tests i find that the 250ohm has a darker background and with a good clean ampdac goes give better sound because of that reduction in noise and added bass clarity.

But since you are just using mp3 files anyway, i would say save yourself the trouble and get the 32ohm.

The Xperia's dac may be able to play 24/192 but the quality is nothing fantastic. Plus no MP3 is encoded at that rate.

So the more logical way to improve your sound is to use a good standalone music player like the Fiio X-series or an Android compatible portable ampdac (Fiio has one, Ibasso has one).

The single best way to increase sound quality is to find lossless music. 

Order of decreasing importance:

Source (as long as its lossless, dont matter what format)>Headphones>DAC>AMP>Cables>Snake oil? 

 

Thanks for responding:) So for high quality MP3 files on the Z3, what is the sweet spot in your opinion? Either just get the low Ohm headphones, get a basic amp that can easily supply for 250Ohms or get a usb ampdac + 250Ohm headphones?

 

Also if I'm buying an ampdac, what would you reccomend? The Z3 should support otg, so I would want usb in (I guess?). I'm not expecting to put the ampdac+phone package in my pocket, so size doesn't really matter as long as build quality is decent. Been looking at fiio e18, is it something you could reccomend?

 

Again thank you very much for responding so fast:)

[rafazafar]

So it is time for me to get a high quality pair of headphones. I'm looking at probably buying the Beyerdynamic DT990, not sure yet though. The thing is that I am not sure if it is really worth getting an amp. I am not going to use the new headphones as a daily driver though because I want open headphones. I travel a lot on very noisy public transportation, so my bose QC15's are still going to be the best for that. I'm going to use it mainly for home use at the computer or whenever I am inside. So the question is; would it be worth spending more money and getting an amp + the 250Ohm version or should I cheap out and just get the 32Ohm version? Obviously, the amp option would be better, but is it really noticeable?

 

Music will be played through my Xperia Z3 which has a 24-bit/192khz interface, and would getting a portable dac plugged in with usb improve the quality? The majority of the music I listen to are MP3 files.

Im not so sure about the Z3, but my experiance *no pun* with the Z2 is that the built in walkman app has manages to put out better sound than my poweramp app.  Maybe theres some amp tuning that is done using the walkman app i dont know. 

Currently im just using a cheap portable player called Hippo Biscuit Plus . And yes it looks like shit n tiny. But it does sound like 40% of a CLAS, which is a major compliment at that 60$ price point.

I havent tried connecting any USB DAC to my Z1, but my friend said he managed to plug in a typical USB DAC to his Z2, so im pretty sure it will work just fine with DAC that has built in batteries like the E07k and such.

Feel free to ask if your not sure bout anythin.

[rafazafar]

Thanks for responding:) So for high quality MP3 files on the Z3, what is the sweet spot in your opinion? Either just get the low Ohm headphones, get a basic amp that can easily supply for 250Ohms or get a usb ampdac + 250Ohm headphones?

 

Also if I'm buying an ampdac, what would you reccomend? The Z3 should support otg, so I would want usb in (I guess?). I'm not expecting to put the ampdac+phone package in my pocket, so size doesn't really matter as long as build quality is decent. Been looking at fiio e18, is it something you could reccomend?

 

Again thank you very much for responding so fast:)

Again with just MP3s i would go for the 32ohm. A great source with a good dac will sound just as amazing on a 32 compared to a 250ohm. Sure some people might argue its slightly better or what not but when it really comes down to it, its negligible compared to the hassle it comes with. Having a 32ohm at hand its way more versatile as well. And a powered portable ampdac like i mentioned will have enough juice to power a 250ohm aswell, abeit not to max potential. Just cus its loud, doesnt mean its driving it correctly  

Yes you can get a direct cable from "MicroUSB to MiniUSB" also to get rid of some cable clutter. Im not quite sure what your usage is, since you are not putting it in your pocket. Phone beside you on a table? or while moving around the house?

The e18 is great if you want to carry around the combo (phone+e18). has that cool function of charging the phone too. 

If you are just going to use it at home i would save some money and go with the E07k (pretty much the same as E18 but less sleek and has more eq controls, and dual output).

ps. Im mainly mentioning Fiio products becuase they are easy to find, not the cheapest not the best in the world, but by far the easier to aquire.

List of working dacs with Lolipop 5:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3XYy1FuzDUeRkdUdlhMRnQzaUk/edit

 

Edited June 3, 2015 by rafazafar

[BoredErica]

Again with just MP3s i would go for the 32ohm. A great source with a good dac will sound just as amazing on a 32 compared to a 250ohm. Sure some people might argue its slightly better or what not but when it really comes down to it, its negligible compared to the hassle it comes with. Having a 32ohm at hand its way more versatile as well. And a powered portable ampdac like i mentioned will have enough juice to power a 250ohm aswell, abeit not to max potential. Just cus its loud, doesnt mean its driving it correctly  

Yes you can get a direct cable from "MicroUSB to MiniUSB" also to get rid of some cable clutter. Im not quite sure what your usage is, since you are not putting it in your pocket. Phone beside you on a table?

The e18 is great if you want to carry around the combo (phone+e18). has that cool function of charging the phone too. 

If you are just going to use it at home i would save some money and go with the E07k (pretty much the same as E18 but less sleek and has more eq controls, and dual output).

ps. Im mainly mentioning Fiio products becuase they are easy to find, not the cheapest not the best in the world, but by far the easier to aquire.

List of working dacs with Lolipop 5:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3XYy1FuzDUeRkdUdlhMRnQzaUk/edit

I totally disagree with every single sentence in the first paragraph.

 

Fortunately for you (or not), I'm too burnt out from FO4 bitchfest to continue this on my own.

[rafazafar]

I totally disagree with every single sentence in the first paragraph.

 

Fortunately for you (or not), I'm too burnt out from FO4 bitchfest to continue this on my own.

I understand where you are comming from, its just from my personal observation that the Fiio amp section doesnt sound as good or rather quite right with higher impedance cans. I dont find that to be the case tho with certain other amps even thats rated for lower. This is what i found when testing the e18 e10 e07k and ibasso dzero. Sadly i dont have the chance to play around much with the big guns just using my old trusty ck10. again, IMHO

I read your thread, nice post!

Edited June 3, 2015 by rafazafar

[BoredErica]

I understand where you are comming from, its just from my personal observation that the Fiio amp section doesnt sound as good or rather quite right with higher impedance cans. I dont find that to be the case tho with certain other amps even thats rated for lower. This is what i found when testing the e18 e10 e07k and ibasso dzero. Sadly i dont have the chance to play around much with the big guns just using my old trusty ck10. again, IMHO

At least, you've got some class.

[rafazafar]

At least, you've got some class.

Haha. Yeah man there way too many people flaming bout audio, its something so subjective cant really force it on others. Those who dont hear a difference are blessed. or rather thier wallets are

[Hugo Vedal]

Again with just MP3s i would go for the 32ohm. A great source with a good dac will sound just as amazing on a 32 compared to a 250ohm. Sure some people might argue its slightly better or what not but when it really comes down to it, its negligible compared to the hassle it comes with. Having a 32ohm at hand its way more versatile as well. And a powered portable ampdac like i mentioned will have enough juice to power a 250ohm aswell, abeit not to max potential. Just cus its loud, doesnt mean its driving it correctly  

Yes you can get a direct cable from "MicroUSB to MiniUSB" also to get rid of some cable clutter. Im not quite sure what your usage is, since you are not putting it in your pocket. Phone beside you on a table? or while moving around the house?

The e18 is great if you want to carry around the combo (phone+e18). has that cool function of charging the phone too. 

If you are just going to use it at home i would save some money and go with the E07k (pretty much the same as E18 but less sleek and has more eq controls, and dual output).

ps. Im mainly mentioning Fiio products becuase they are easy to find, not the cheapest not the best in the world, but by far the easier to aquire.

List of working dacs with Lolipop 5:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3XYy1FuzDUeRkdUdlhMRnQzaUk/edit

 

 

When I said I'm not putting it in my pocket I ment for everyday use. It would be nice if the ampdac could fit in a normal pocket, does not have to be comfortable though. I'm not expecting any ampdac to be comfortable really though, but I think something like a E18 could work once in a while. As for the E7, it is not availible in my country, and the E18 is the best option I have found as of yet. Money is not the biggest of issues though, I already have over $500 saved up and I am working at least two weeks in the summer, so it really comes down to the best reasonable headphone & ampdac combo(not the ones where you pay $100 extra to get 2% better sound, it's not like I want to throw money out the window just because I have a decent budget).

 

So I will probably end up buying the 250Ohm DT990's (250Ohm version is almost $50 cheaper here compared to 32) with probably an E18 ampdac. I am really down to buy an ampdac because I have all the flexibility. For now it is probably going to be MP3's, but playing flac later will work no problem. I am probably going to play some games on the headphones aswell, so amp>mp3 player in this situation

 

Think this will be the sweet spot for audio quality and flexibility. Don't see any reason to go any higher than E18, and cheaper ampdacs just doesn't have the same features. For the headphones, the DT990s seem like the best open headphones out of watching the reviews. More expensive headphones are obviously better, but I don't see the point for my usage.

[Majestic]

The only time you should look at the impedance, is to get a good match with your source. Just make sure that the source has a low output, and just buy whatever sounds the best. Whatever headset you buy must be 8 times the output impedance of your source, the rest is kinda moot.

[rafazafar]

When I said I'm not putting it in my pocket I ment for everyday use. It would be nice if the ampdac could fit in a normal pocket, does not have to be comfortable though. I'm not expecting any ampdac to be comfortable really though, but I think something like a E18 could work once in a while. As for the E7, it is not availible in my country, and the E18 is the best option I have found as of yet. Money is not the biggest of issues though, I already have over $500 saved up and I am working at least two weeks in the summer, so it really comes down to the best reasonable headphone & ampdac combo(not the ones where you pay $100 extra to get 2% better sound, it's not like I want to throw money out the window just because I have a decent budget).

 

So I will probably end up buying the 250Ohm DT990's (250Ohm version is almost $50 cheaper here compared to 32) with probably an E18 ampdac. I am really down to buy an ampdac because I have all the flexibility. For now it is probably going to be MP3's, but playing flac later will work no problem. I am probably going to play some games on the headphones aswell, so amp>mp3 player in this situation

 

Think this will be the sweet spot for audio quality and flexibility. Don't see any reason to go any higher than E18, and cheaper ampdacs just doesn't have the same features. For the headphones, the DT990s seem like the best open headphones out of watching the reviews. More expensive headphones are obviously better, but I don't see the point for my usage.

Agreed. Yeah the diminishing returns really kick in, but at what point is it "good enough" really depends on the person. I mean, i love the high end stuff but my personal sweet spot is around an alessandro ms2i with a good source. So its hard to recommend without any idea what type of sound you like. Since your just starting with all these things, dont mind too much about the signal reflection and voltage drops, if its good to your ears, its good. Im not the one listenning

Do you have like a local shop to try out headphones in Norway?

[Hugo Vedal]

Agreed. Yeah the diminishing returns really kick in, but at what point is it "good enough" really depends on the person. I mean, i love the high end stuff but my personal sweet spot is around an alessandro ms2i with a good source. So its hard to recommend without any idea what type of sound you like. Since your just starting with all these things, dont mind too much about the details, if its good to your ears, its good. Im not the one listenning

 

Thanks bro for being so competent, yet so humble and down to earth, rare to see on the internet   It is over a month until I am buying whatever I end up buying, so I still have a lot of time to think what's the best. But DT990 250 + E18 seems like the best for me

[Hugo Vedal]

Agreed. Yeah the diminishing returns really kick in, but at what point is it "good enough" really depends on the person. I mean, i love the high end stuff but my personal sweet spot is around an alessandro ms2i with a good source. So its hard to recommend without any idea what type of sound you like. Since your just starting with all these things, dont mind too much about the signal reflection and voltage drops, if its good to your ears, its good. Im not the one listenning

Do you have like a local shop to try out headphones in Norway?

 

On the local shops subject, yes there are a couple of them. Probably going to go there just to try the headphones and see what I like and what budget defines just wasting money for my ears. Friend of mine has a pair of DT770's, and they sound amazing, just way out of the QC15's league when it comes to sound quality. But yeah, probably a good idea to try on some different headphones at the store before I buy.

[xtroria]

@Dark_wizzie i dont understand how so many people cant understand simple physics

[rafazafar]

On the local shops subject, yes there are a couple of them. Probably going to go there just to try the headphones and see what I like and what budget defines just wasting money for my ears. Friend of mine has a pair of DT770's, and they sound amazing, just way out of the QC15's league when it comes to sound quality. But yeah, probably a good idea to try on some different headphones at the store before I buy.

 

Thanks bro for being so competent, yet so humble and down to earth, rare to see on the internet    It is over a month until I am buying whatever I end up buying, so I still have a lot of time to think what's the best. But DT990 250 + E18 seems like the best for me 

Haha, we all learning new things everyday. Who knows if you manage to find some other good headphones, sometimes not so well known brands can surprise you, somtimes... Where do you buy them from ususally? Maybe i can give it a look to see how the market there is like, just curious.

If you dont mind, can you name me like other headphones, earphones,speakers or heck even microphones that you kinda liked the sound. Dont worry if its brandless or not considered "audiophile" . 

 

[SSL]

From my tests i find that the 250ohm has a darker background and with a good clean ampdac goes give better sound because of that reduction in noise and added bass clarity.

But since you are just using mp3 files anyway, i would say save yourself the trouble and get the 32ohm.

The Xperia's dac may be able to play 24/192 but the quality is nothing fantastic. Plus no MP3 is encoded at that rate.

So the more logical way to improve your sound is to use a good standalone music player like the Fiio X-series or an Android compatible portable ampdac (Fiio has one, Ibasso has one).

The single best way to increase sound quality is to find lossless music. 

Order of decreasing importance:

Source (as long as its lossless, dont matter what format)>Headphones>DAC>AMP>Cables>Snake oil?

 

Higher impedance cans will be less susceptible to a high noise floor than low impedance cans, all else being equal (most importantly, sensitivity). If you've heard something different that's interesting but probably not contradictory to physics.

 

I find the claim that lossless music to be the greatest determinant of sound quality astounding, given that most music is not mastered as well as it could be, that headphones and loudspeakers have orders of magnitude more distortion and coloration than a decent mp3, and that most people fail blind tests between well-compressed mp3 and lossless.

[rafazafar]

Higher impedance cans will be less susceptible to a high noise floor than low impedance cans, all else being equal (most importantly, sensitivity). If you've heard something different that's interesting but probably not contradictory to physics.

 

I find the claim that lossless music to be the greatest determinant of sound quality astounding, given that most music is not mastered as well as it could be, that headphones and loudspeakers have orders of magnitude more distortion and coloration than a decent mp3, and that most people fail blind tests between well-compressed mp3 and lossless.

I agree but sadly im one of them that do hear that difference, its not much and on certain songs, you can barely hear it, but with my CK10 i really do hear it. I name it the single best way because most MP3 are badly encoded. A good 320kbps mp3 sounds pretty good, but that itself isnt so common. Also its almost free to re-rip CDs. Do pardon my english, im not a native speaker

ps. yeah it is physics defying, im not an electronics engineer, im an applied physics student. but just as it is i wonder why im hearing the difference, i try to keep my ENT passages clear and consistent, still the difference is there. nor have any idea how to predict which equipment will have that characteristic. Play by ear is how i roll in the end. 

[SSL]

I agree but sadly im one of them that do hear that difference, its not much and on certain songs, you can barely hear it, but with my CK10 i really do hear it. I name it the single best way because most MP3 are badly encoded. A good 320kbps mp3 sounds pretty good, but that itself isnt so common. Also its almost free to re-rip CDs. Do pardon my english, im not a native speaker

ps. yeah it is physics defying, im not an electronics engineer. but just as it is i wonder why im hearing the difference. nor have any idea how to predict which equipment will have that characteristic. Play by ear is how i roll in the end. 

 

Are you blind testing? What kinds of differences are you actually hearing?

[rafazafar]

Are you blind testing? What kinds of differences are you actually hearing?

Yeah i was blind testing, its hard to describe but it just feels bit more clean...or crisp. especially the highs but that may just be my earphone/headphone's respond to it.

I tried this with  MS1i, CK10, DBA-02, m50, srh440 and hd650. mostly balanced to analytic IEMS,cans.

with the m50  and srh440 was harder to tell

 

edit: Lets not hijack this thread anymore I want to keep the OP's thread his. If you want to ask anything just PM me. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by rafazafar

[TumbleButt]

Higher impedance cans will be less susceptible to a high noise floor than low impedance cans, all else being equal (most importantly, sensitivity). If you've heard something different that's interesting but probably not contradictory to physics.

 

I find the claim that lossless music to be the greatest determinant of sound quality astounding, given that most music is not mastered as well as it could be, that headphones and loudspeakers have orders of magnitude more distortion and coloration than a decent mp3, and that most people fail blind tests between well-compressed mp3 and lossless.

I've googled some blind tests regarding well-compressed vs lossless. Yep, its true. But I must ask though, since I'm sort of planning to make a thread on a different forum, where did you get your sources on that? I could use more sources for information's sake.

[SSL]

I've googled some blind tests regarding well-compressed vs lossless. Yep, its true. But I must ask though, since I'm sort of planning to make a thread on a different forum, where did you get your sources on that? I could use more sources for information's sake.

 

Check the first link in my sig. I think there is a link to some blind tests on Hydrogen audio in there. If not let me know, I probably have it bookmarked still.