AMD confirms 4GB limit for first HBM graphics card

[Samfisher]

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/05/amd-confirms-4gb-limit-for-first-hbm-graphics-card/

 

 

 

AMD's just taken the wraps off its shiny new high bandwidth memory (HBM) technology, and as rumoured, the company is limited to a total of 4GB for its first-generation HBM product. While AMD has yet to reveal specifics of what that product might be, it did tell us that it'll be a GPU, it'll be priced towards the higher end of the spectrum, and that you'll be able to walk into a store and buy one within "the next couple of months." The rumour mill strongly suggests that this first HBM part will be the R9 390X.

 

 

 

The reason for the 4GB restriction for the company's upcoming GPU is due to the first-generation HBM design. HBM uses stacked memory chips along with a silicon interposer and through-silicon-vias (an interconnect that runs through the chip from top to bottom) in order to move the DRAM closer to the GPU. This shortens the traces, allowing for increased bandwidth and lower power consumption. Currently, those chips can only be stacked four dies high. With each die limited to 2Gbit, each stack is one gigabyte. AMD's current design only allows for four stacks around the GPU, limiting the system to four gigabytes.

 

 

 

 

Interesting, and quashes all rumours of a Titan X-class amount of VRAM.

[werto165]

Don't know how I feel about this, some games just required more than 4GB running at higher resolutions, pretty sure if you ran GTA V at 4k and max settings as you expect a card like this to do would go over the 4GB. Could be due to the cost? I remember seeing somewhere it costs considerably more than GDDR5

[Trik'Stari]

Don't know how I feel about this, some games just required more than 4GB running at higher resolutions, pretty sure if you ran GTA V at 4k and max settings as you expect a card like this to do would go over the 4GB.

I get near 3.5 on GTA V on 1080 (triple monitor or single) with everything turned up, so yeah, 4k probably gonna be more than this can handle.

[Delusional Phil]

It's HBM so I got high hopes on this ... That is until nVIDIA comes out with their Pascal and HBM 2

[KamiKatze]

Looks like the tables have turned.

[werto165]

I get near 3.5 on GTA V on 1080 (triple monitor or single) with everything turned up, so yeah, 4k probably gonna be more than this can handle.

I'm sure there's lots of settings that you could dial back as they have little affect on the overall look of the game. I was really hoping for more VRAM, but I probably wont be buying this anyway as it will be out of my price range(most likely).

[Notional]

Well that is a tiny bit disappointing, however, this will still be a revolutionary card, if the leaked image, shows a water cooled itx sized card. Furthermore, GCN 1.2 should have delta compression like 285 and NVidia's 900 series, so 4GB is more like 5GB of 200 series GDDR5 memory. Either way, I'm very interested in seeing the launch of this thing.

 

2016 will be an amazing year for gfx's with 14/16nm ff, and HBM2.

 

I get near 3.5 on GTA V on 1080 (triple monitor or single) with everything turned up, so yeah, 4k probably gonna be more than this can handle.

Is that because you have a 970? /jk

[Trik'Stari]

I'm sure there's lots of settings that you could dial back as they have little affect on the overall look of the game. I was really hoping for more VRAM, but I probably wont be buying this anyway as it will be out of my price range(most likely).

Oh I'm sure, I was just pointing out that GTA V can certainly push a card to its limits, even on just 1080 single monitor. And I know that feels, being broke and all. Wish I could get a second 970 for better triple monitor surround performance. (also the baller-ness of that SLI look)

[Samfisher]

 

It's HBM so I got high hopes on this ... That is until nVIDIA comes out with their Pascal and HBM 2

 

 

HBM doesn't affect performance unless you were memory bandwidth bottlenecked, which extremely few games are if there are any at all.  You run out of steam on the GPU before memory bandwidth ever becomes an issue.

[sof006]

Looks like the tables have turned.

Until Nvidia turns them straight back round again with Pascal

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

I wonder how will this play out  :huh:

[Notional]

Until Nvidia turns them straight back round again with Pascal

 

Pascal will go up against Greenland, a 14nm GPU with HBM 2. So it will be a good fight for sure.

[Eroda]

Until Nvidia turns them straight back round again with Pascal

 

thats next year, Nvidia descided to use HBM  alot later than AMD, Basically AMD backed HBM and Nvidia bet on HMC, turns out HBM is the more viable tech so they are behind the 8-ball here

[KamiKatze]

Until Nvidia turns them straight back round again with Pascal

 

The tables have turned in favour of nvidia already imo. Nvidia was always the one with less VRAM, getting hard words for their VRAM-greed. Now its the other way around.

[Delusional Phil]

HBM doesn't affect performance unless you were memory bandwidth bottlenecked, which extremely few games are if there are any at all.  You run out of steam on the GPU before memory bandwidth ever becomes an issue.

Still ... I think it's an important step ... It's better than nothing ... 

[sof006]

thats next year, Nvidia descided to use HBM  alot later than AMD, Basically AMD backed HBM and Nvidia bet on HMC, turns out HBM is the more viable tech so they are behind the 8-ball here

I'm pretty sure it'll be neck and neck considering we're nearly half way through 2015. I'm glad Nvidia is holding off till next year, means more time to develop it.

[0ld_Chicken]

I'm rather ignorant on this topic although I understand the basic idea. However my 2gb 960 (don't hurt me, I had my reasons) will play gta v with settings using 2.5gb+ vram (by selecting ignore whatever limits) with no problems what so ever despite only having 2gb. Could this do something similar? I'm probably way off but am curious

[Thony]

"94% less PCB surface area" so its just 6% of a size of GDDR5 ?! Sounds little too much of an improvement to me.

Just for pure imaginative comparison purpose: from 10cm to 6cm size block (made up numbers, dont be mad)

So we can easily have triple or quadrouple amount of VRAM on one GPU right ?

Still sounds unreal to me, thats a massive leap forward. But it must suck if Nvidia still sticks with GDDR5. U know, if this was so damn good Nvidia would surely already had newer VRAM technology to compete.

[Doobeedoo]

Hmm, it will be interesting to see how it actually stacks compared to old memory and how will it perform when getting maxed.

[ThreePinkApples]

"94% less PCB surface area" so its just 6% of a size of GDDR5 ?! Sounds little too much of an improvement to me.

 

It's a combination. First, since HBM stacks, you get 1GB on the surface area of 1 chip, while with GDDR5 you get 1GB on the surface area of 4 chips. 

So there you have 75% reduction.

And then on top of that the chips a bit smaller, and on top of that, the can put the chips right on the GPU and just make it a bit bigger, instead of having the chips placed all around the GPU like they do with GDDR5

[Birdhunter]

I'm rather ignorant on this topic although I understand the basic idea. However my 2gb 960 (don't hurt me, I had my reasons) will play gta v with settings using 2.5gb+ vram (by selecting ignore whatever limits) with no problems what so ever despite only having 2gb. Could this do something similar? I'm probably way off but am curious

Well in your case, it's loading and unloading stuff into the Vram because it's running out of space. That "loading" tanks the performance and leads to lower FPS - but if it's doing this only a few times and it's only a small amount of data, then the drop in fps is small and short.

That, and the Vram "prediction" might not be as accurate, telling you you'll need 2.5 but actually only using 2. If you want to know, if your Graphiccard is really hitting the limit, use MSI Afterburner or HW Info (or similar).

At topic:

I don't see any issues, since it's the first run of HBMs. I'm certain, that we'll see higher capacity later down the line. Also, this applies to "AMD Specifications" - third parties might go another way, outside those specs (many boards and layouts are "not reference design").

[BonSie]

Fiji should at one point be able to use HBM2 without to much hassle, since it's mostly the memory chip that changes.

When that will happen I don't know.

[SurvivorNVL]

8gb HBM R9 395x2 or Fiji XT-V2?  Seems like that'll be the likely situation.

[jaggysnake57]

so is it still worth the $850?

 

personally i say no @ 1080p it will be fine but why spend that much on a gpu for 1080p gaming and given that games are now pushing the 4gb ram limit at 1080 leta lone 1440p/4k i just dont see the point

[Notional]

"94% less PCB surface area" so its just 6% of a size of GDDR5 ?! Sounds little too much of an improvement to me.

Just for pure imaginative comparison purpose: from 10cm to 6cm size block (made up numbers, dont be mad)

So we can easily have triple or quadrouple amount of VRAM on one GPU right ?

Still sounds unreal to me, thats a massive leap forward. But it must suck if Nvidia still sticks with GDDR5. U know, if this was so damn good Nvidia would surely already had newer VRAM technology to compete.

 

This picture illustrates the point quite well. The orange squares are ram:

 

 

Both have 4GB of vram.