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ZFS arrays are tricky to get right, but can deliever massive performance improvements and data loss protection.  I'm sure you guys at LMG are a busy bunch, but if you reach out to the FreeNAS community, I'm sure they'll be able to give you the config that would give you the performance you are looking for.  I know a few of the FreeBSD/FreeNAS/PCBSD developers and they are extremely friendly and approachable.  I'm sure they'd have no problem helping you set up your zpool for the best possible performance.  If you need a more direct line than their website or IRC channel, feel free to drop me an email (since you're admin on the site you can see it) and I can give you the contract details of someone who could help.

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Meanwhile, I just bought a new 500gb hard drive....

I'm with you bro :D

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Overall the video was good, but I have just a small critique. I don't know if this was intentional or not, but the background music was really quiet. I could hear that it is there, but I couldn't really tell what it is through most of the video, so it didn't really add to the video. IMHO, I'm not even sure this particular video needed music, since Linus was narrating the entire time.

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freeNAS recommend you bypass the hardware RAID for ZFS. is that what you did?

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Copy to "nul" is not an option?
(so you will not be bottlenecked by write speed)

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In 5 years I'll have this much RAM

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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A few questions I was confused on when I saw the video -

 

Is this rack mountable?

What happens in the scenario of a failed disk in your Array - e.g. Do you have to unscrew the whole lot and swap a new drive in / can you hot swap drives on this set up without having to power it off?

What is your backup solution you have in place?

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In 5 years I'll have this much RAM

Nope, in 5 years maybe 1TB of ram in a server environment.

I'm Batman!

Steam: Rukiri89 | uPlay: Rukiri89 | Origin: XxRukiriXx | Xbox LIVE: XxRUKIRIxX89 | PSN: Ericks1989 | Nintendo Network ID: Rukiri

Project Xenos: Motherboard: MSI Z170a M9 ACK | CPU: i7 6700k | Ram: G.Skil TridentZ 16GB 3000mhz | PSU: EVGA SuperNova 850w G2 | Case: Caselabs SMA8 | Cooling: Custom Loop | Still in progress 

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Nope, in 5 years maybe 1TB of ram in a server environment.

How do you know. Maybe a new technology can rise up and make it so RAM can be huge for very little cost.

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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You can run a scrub on your pool and that gives an idea of what the max read and write speed will be.

I run 10 disk raid-z2 pools (1 vdev) and get about 829 MB/sec with zfs send and receive via mbuffer over single 10GE link. (This is also the scrub speed)

When i run test with dd via mbuffer i get about 1124 MB/sec over the 10GE link. So the network stack is not the issue with freebsd.

I tested this with zfsguru 10.1, so freebsd 10.1 with intel x520-da2 cards with all settings default (so mtu 1500) Harddisks are 3 TB toshiba, 4TB seagate desktop 15 and hgst 7k4000. All pools with 7200 rpm disks are around that 880 MB/sec, the pool with the seagates is a bit slower.

From Windows pc i am seeing also speeds of 350 MB/sec from a raid-5 volume. 4 GB file from ramdisk was about 425 MB/sec. But is is a 7 year old pc, so it might have i/o bottlenecks (pci-e and pci-x slots and i7-920)

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One thing not mentioned in the video is that regular raid cards usually needs to be flashed to HBAs as the raid cards disrupts ZFS in-depth communication with the drives.

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That is a lot of storage.

I assume the last 18 drive mounts are for future expansion

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Also need to know with zfs is that if one of the vdevs under a pool fail you (3 disk loss in this scenario) the whole pool is gone, so also the other 2 vdevs. This could happen if one or 2 discs in a pool fail and you have to resilver, the rest of the disks have high load than and risk one more out of same batch fails is there..

Other ZFS disadvantage is that you cannot fill up to 100% of the pool size, as system gets very slow there.

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Hi, so I work for an enterprise storage company (no, we won't sponsor you. Or rather, I am not in a position where I could ask that, nor is even our simplest gear really of any use to you; it's wayyy beyond what you need). Windows uses a 60K block transfer size for copies the you are doing. Thus, 360000000 / 60000 = 6000 IOPS. Considering each drive only does 200-300 IOPS each, this is pretty good and shows that the ZFS ARC cache is what you are testing more than the drives themselves, because ain't no way in HELL 9 drives managed to do 6000 IOPS. That was caching and other upstream systems helping you out.

 

The short version for the end goal you want, which is 'mo fasta', is simple: larger transfer sizes, unencrypted connections (FTP > SFTP/SCP, make sure NFS encryption is off). The transfer sizes will need to be configured on both the hosts and server. On linux you typicall set the transfer size per HBA in /sys/, where specifically depends on the HBA/vendor/etc.

 

Also, like you said, parallel transfers. The funny thing about raid is that if you have RAIDZ (2/3) with 16 drives, you don't actually get 'full' performance until you have 16 parallel transfers (or more). Why? Because of striping. You need one read per drive per 'timeslice' (timeslice = the time a single IO @ IOPS takes) in order to max out the drive. There's a LOT of stacked optimization technology on top of each other and debugging will be hard until you start turning layers of it off.

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/223140/<--this article has info on how to change the windows explorer transfer size. I'd need to look at some of my scripts at work to remember where exactly the setting is on RHEL/Ubuntu (should be similar for freenas).

 

One question, you are using the built in RAID cards for JBOD and ZFS is the only raid you are running right? You aren't doing RAID on RAID right?

 

Edit: The reason RAID never gives the linear performance people wish it would is because the controller reads one drive in the RAID set at a time. In a 9 drive setup it reads one strip from disk 1, then one stripe from disk 2, etc. It does not read a stripe from all 9 disks at once then reassemble it on the card. That's why you need parallel transfers. Making a single transfer faster requires faster drives / more caching.

 

edit2: Ok, the larger transfer sizes for the HBA are configured, in linux, at the device level. See, my testing works with LUNs presented to me, rather than being the thing hosting the LUN. Anyway, the principle is the same, and the path is /sys/block/%s/queue/max_sectors_kb where %s is the name or path to the device. It could be sda or it might be something more like pci0000:00/0000:00:10.0/host2/target2:0:1/2:0:1:0/ It won't accept a value smaller than 4 normally (4096 bytes maximum transfer size) and may need kernel hacks to go above 1-3MB (1024-3072). The number must be a power of 2. Hope this helps.

Edited by asquirrel
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Lots of great posts in this thread. Will go through in more detail for some optimization tips but not planning to change the vdevs to an "optimal" number of drives since future expansion is more important to me than performance.

9x5 = 45 (the number of bays I have) * 35 drives of total capacity whereas 10x4 = 40 drives and 5 empty bays *32 drives of total capacity.

I'll have a separate pure SSD server for performance.

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Another thing i found out late was the placement of hdd's in the case (in my case norco 4220)

I did initally place of each pool 4 on lowest backplane, 4 on the 2 nd and than 2 on the fifth.

Since norco is not known for backplane stability i re arranged it to 2 drives on each backplane. So a backplane fail does not bring pool down.

No idea how this is in your storinator case. I see numbering from 1-1 to 1-24 and than 2-1 to 2-21

But it might help to think about how tomplace drive in relation with backplanes and sff-8087 connections to the controllers

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Not filling up all the 45 bays can maybe better instead of 45 drives. Because if you fill up 45 drives and 1 connector fails you need to remove alot of hardware to replace the backplate. And when you have 5 free bays you allways have the option to swap a drive to anther connector. Just a though. It is an interesting build :) Keep us updated

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Ram has actually gotten more expensive the last couple of years... unfortunately.

512mb stick was $115 back in 2006

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Hey,

 

Thanks for your questions! We can chime in on a couple of them.

 

The Storinator is a rackmount case, so it's easily mounted in a rack - the S45 unit Linus has is 31.5" deep.

 

For failed disks, all you have to do is pop off of the lid and hot swap drives (no need to power off). We have a new lid entering production soon that's going to make it even easier to remove the lid. 

 

Give us a shout if you have any more questions.

 

A few questions I was confused on when I saw the video -

 

Is this rack mountable?

What happens in the scenario of a failed disk in your Array - e.g. Do you have to unscrew the whole lot and swap a new drive in / can you hot swap drives on this set up without having to power it off?

What is your backup solution you have in place?

Home of the STORINATOR - Direct-Wired, Ultra-Large Storage Pods

Now offering WD Entreprise-Class Hard Drives!

READ our latest blog post HERE!

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512mb stick was $115 back in 2006

I said last couple of years. You went back nine years, and I'm not sure where you got those numbers, because I remember upgrading my old gateway pc to 2 gbs of ram and it definitely didn't cost that much. For DDR3, may

 

2 years ago you could get 16gb of ram for around $50, today it's about double that at round $100

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I said last couple of years. You went back nine years, and I'm not sure where you got those numbers, because I remember upgrading my old gateway pc to 2 gbs of ram and it definitely didn't cost that much. For DDR3, may

 

2 years ago you could get 16gb of ram for around $50, today it's about double that at round $100

I got the number from a post my dad made on a forum back in 2006 looking to upgrade his mac G5.

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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