Killing floor 2 devs says no to paid mods

[leelaa14]

Pretty nice to see a dev doing this and sticking to the true nature of modding.

they have updated there EULA,

“Your Mods must be distributed for free, period,” reads the clause. “Neither you, nor any other person or party, may sell them to anyone, commercially exploit them in any way, or charge anyone for receiving or using them without prior written consent from Tripwire Interactive.

“You may exchange them at no charge among other end users and distribute them to others over the Internet, on magazine cover disks, or otherwise for free.”

source http://www.vg247.com/2015/04/25/killing-floor-2-mods-pc-steam/ 

[C0LL0SS0S]

Imagine you make mods, love to make. Why would making money with it be wrong ? Linus also loves what he does, but is he doing it just because its fun ? No because he has to make a living with it. Some of those HQ mods take weeks to make, even if the modder "works" all day on it. Paying for mods yes, paying game devs and steam? No

Sorry but that hype around free mods is killing me

[Nineshadow]

Imagine you make mods, love to make. Why would making money with it be wrong ? Linus also loves what he does, but is he doing it just because its fun ? No because he has to make a living with it. Some of those HQ mods take weeks to make, even if the modder "works" all day on it. Paying for mods yes, paying game devs and steam? No

Sorry but that hype around free mods is killing me

Because there's no assurance for quality when it comes to mods.

[minibois]

Of course they do.

Nice free advertisement :)

[leelaa14]

Imagine you make mods, love to make. Why would making money with it be wrong ? Linus also loves what he does, but is he doing it just because its fun ? No because he has to make a living with it. Some of those HQ mods take weeks to make, even if the modder "works" all day on it. Paying for mods yes, paying game devs and steam? No

Sorry but that hype around free mods is killing me

People choose to make these mods just like people choose to work for a charity and not get paid.

It's the persons choice weather they do it or not. Modders knew they weren't getting paid for it when they started.

[Kevin_Walter]

Imagine you make mods, love to make. Why would making money with it be wrong ? Linus also loves what he does, but is he doing it just because its fun ? No because he has to make a living with it. Some of those HQ mods take weeks to make, even if the modder "works" all day on it. Paying for mods yes, paying game devs and steam? No

Sorry but that hype around free mods is killing me

 

I'm perfectly fine with people accepting donations for the work they do. But when it comes to demanding money for modifying something that someone else owns/created... it gets far less black and white.

 

On top of that, one of the reasons a lot of people have issues with what Valve did is because Valve is raking in even more money for doing... nothing.

[Blebekblebek]

it's more complicated in mods scene.

and mod is driven by desire to build with community.

 

I have nothing against it, but seeing how bad it goes right now and how much worse it can be

this isn't good idea

[leelaa14]

I'm perfectly fine with people accepting donations for the work they do. But when it comes to demanding money for modifying something that someone else owns/created... it gets far less black and white.

 

On top of that, one of the reasons a lot of people have issues with what Valve did is because Valve is raking in even more money for doing... nothing.

This.

[C0LL0SS0S]

People choose to make these mods just like people choose to work for a charity and not get paid.

It's the persons choice weather they do it or not. Modders knew they weren't getting paid for it when they started.

You know people start doing youtube because its fun, or thats why it should be, and then they can evolve and make a living out if it, why not for mods ? Of course there are shitty mods but some mods are kinda like complete DLCs so paying for them is just logic

 

Because there's no assurance for quality when it comes to mods.

I was talking about HQ mods only in that post, didn't mentioned it good enough I guess

[LegacyStijncat]

Imagine you make mods, love to make. Why would making money with it be wrong ? Linus also loves what he does, but is he doing it just because its fun ? No because he has to make a living with it. Some of those HQ mods take weeks to make, even if the modder "works" all day on it. Paying for mods yes, paying game devs and steam? No

1. Mods are unstable, and may break because of updates.
2. A lot of time goes into mods. But what does take more time? Making the game itself!
3. Not all modders are as talented. While some make hilarious and genius mods, some others add a sword.
4. I've seen people charge 1,54$ for a single piece of armor and a helmet. I CAN BUY A GAME FROM THIS.
5. What is going to stop people from copying someone else's mod?
6. This is not "for the modders". The modders get 25%. You have read this right. 25%.

 

Sorry but that hype around free mods is killing me

Free mods don't exist. We call them "mods". Mods are made by talented people to give a game extra life and to train their coding and drawing skills, while giving a free and enjoyable experience to the downloader.

[leelaa14]

You know people start doing youtube because its fun, or thats why it should be, and then they can evolve and make a living out if it, why not for mods ? Of course there are shitty mods but some mods are kinda like complete DLCs so paying for them is just logic

 

I was talking about HQ mods only in that post, didn't mentioned it good enough I guess

I totally get what your saying, but like the other user said, to demand money for them is just wrong.

I'm pretty sure a lot of modders make quite a bit through donations. Infact nexus mods are talking about adding donations, donations are the way forward rather than demanding.

[Blebekblebek]

You know people start doing youtube because its fun, or thats why it should be, and then they can evolve and make a living out if it, why not for mods ? Of course there are shitty mods but some mods are kinda like complete DLCs so paying for them is just logic

 

I was talking about HQ mods only in that post, didn't mentioned it good enough I guess

Youtube didn't require audience to pay to enjoy the content (or not yet)

it was free by choice and act, and they were paid from advertisement not us.

 

with paid MOD you are require to pay to use it, not really good example as in both are very different subject.

[ThomasD]

Because there's no assurance for quality when it comes to mods.

Same principle applies to aftermarket parts for cars, guitars, or add ons to any other form of software.

 

Used to be when you bought a copy of a program you could do with it as you pleased.  Including having it modified by third parties.

 

Now people prefer to have things taken away from them. Strange.

[C0LL0SS0S]

 

1. Mods are unstable, and may break because of updates.
2. A lot of time goes into mods. But what does take more time? Making the game itself!
3. Not all modders are as talented. While some make hilarious and genius mods, some others add a sword.
4. I've seen people charge 1,54$ for a single piece of armor and a helmet. I CAN BUY A GAME FROM THIS.
5. What is going to stop people from copying someone else's mod?
6. This is not "for the modders". The modders get 25%. You have read this right. 25%.

 

Free mods don't exist. We call them "mods". Mods are made by talented people to give a game extra life and to train their coding and drawing skills, while giving a free and enjoyable experience to the downloader.

 

1, not all mods are unstable, some modders get indirect support from the makers, and even if an update breaks them. Good mods will work rather quickly again

2, They earn money for making that game, but if I would mod a whole new campaign I get nothing, of course they have more work, but they mostly charge more than the mod itself

3, Again, I was talking about good HQ mods, not nudity mods or stuff like that.

4, You can't compare a mod for a AAA game with some 1,5$ games, also you don't have to buy a stupid sword ^^

5, nothing, whats gonna stop people from pirating a game ?

6, I know that, and I also know that you haven't read my post completly

[C0LL0SS0S]

Youtube didn't require audience to pay to enjoy the content (or not yet)

it was free by choice and act, and they were paid from advertisement not us.

 

with paid MOD you are require to pay to use it, not really good example as in both are very different subject.

You know if you don't pay for something you are the product, would rather pay 10$ a month

[ThomasD]

 

snip

 

1.  Then why mod at all?

2.  And this changes exactly how?

3.  Ditto

4.  So?  Don't buy it if you don't like the price.  Nobody is forcing you to do anything.

5.  Same types of things that stop people from stealing other forms of software.  So yes, it will happen, but again, so what?  It already happens.

6.  Modders can choose not to accept 25%.  They will get nothing.   But why is that your concern?  It is their mod, not yours.

 

These aren't reasons, they are excuses.

 

Tell us what really bothers you.

[Kevin_Walter]

3, Again, I was talking about good HQ mods, not nudity mods or stuff like that.

 

But who determines what is, and what is not a "good HQ mod"?

 

Also, if someone deserves to be paid for their time working on one mod, why not another? What if that nude mod is technically just as demanding/HQ as that armor mod... does the person who made it not deserve money for the time they spent making it based solely on the fact that you don't like nude mods?

This is that grey area I was talking about...

[LegacyStijncat]

1, not all mods are unstable, some modders get indirect support from the makers, and even if an update breaks them. Good mods will work rather quickly again

2, They earn money for making that game, but if I would mod a whole new campaign I get nothing, of course they have more work, but they mostly charge more than the mod itself

3, Again, I was talking about good HQ mods, not nudity mods or stuff like that.

4, You can't compare a mod for a AAA game with some 1,5$ games, also you don't have to buy a stupid sword ^^

5, nothing, whats gonna stop people from pirating a game ?

6, I know that, and I also know that you haven't read my post completly

Good counter arguments, quite surprised O_o

 

I only don't get 6. I do see that you agree on paying mod makers, and not game dev and Valve. Which I 100% agree with, it's evil that Valve takes a cut. But this is right now about Steam Workshop, and if this continues, Valve shall remain to take cuts. This change needs to happen somewhere else where Valve doesn't have power.

[C0LL0SS0S]

But who determines what is, and what is not a "good HQ mod"?

 

Also, if someone deserves to be paid for their time working on one mod, why not another? What if that nude mod is technically just as demanding/HQ as that armor mod... does the person who made it not deserve money for the time they spent making it based solely on the fact that you don't like nude mods?

This is that grey area I was talking about...

HQ mods for me are mods that uses own textures, maybe even animations. Also I'am not saying that nudity mods are bad, it was just a bad example. If it is as demanding why not, the modder will see if the mod sells, so he can make his next one for free if it fails

[C0LL0SS0S]

Good counter arguments, quite surprised O_o

 

I only don't get 6. I do see that you agree on paying mod makers, and not game dev and Valve. Which I 100% agree with, it's evil that Valve takes a cut. But this is right now about Steam Workshop, and if this continues, Valve shall remain to take cuts. This change needs to happen somewhere else where Valve doesn't have power.

Thank you ^^

I totally agree, we need a place to sell/share mods that is so easy to use that copycats won't have a chance. I don't have a problem with the platform getting like 20% of the cut since they still provide servers, payment. Also mods would be easier to find, and maybe even install, with one place to get them all. No more forum searching for mods. But seeing how much problems even Minecraft has with mods, a standard for all games ? This is the whole challenge ^^

[Blebekblebek]

this one is very good read from modder point of view

http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730319151037/

 

which unfortunately happening as right now.

using copyrighted material, and so on..

 

and worst, they stole the idea/concept and even the "free" mod it self and pack it and label it "their own work".

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=72850&browsesort=trend&section=readytouseitems&requiredflags[]=paiditems

sange & yasha are valve (dota) property, I don't think they can do that.

 

and he mention this

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429526712&searchtext=

 

I just lol, so now... we have early access for mod too?

 

again I have nothing against it, but right now, there are too many factor that make this would get worse instead better.

[ThomasD]

But who determines what is, and what is not a "good HQ mod"?

 

Also, if someone deserves to be paid for their time working on one mod, why not another? What if that nude mod is technically just as demanding/HQ as that armor mod... does the person who made it not deserve money for the time they spent making it based solely on the fact that you don't like nude mods?

This is that grey area I was talking about...

Deserving to get paid, and ability to get paid are often not directly related.

 

I've walked by violinists busking in Europe who I thought deserved to get paid.  But people weren't exactly lining up to throw money in the box.

 

Nudity mods are also problematic because they have community/commerical issues such that Valve will not sell them, nor be associated with any licensing of them for sale.  Ditto for Bethesda.  Anyone who makes a mode like that knows it is not going to be an aboveboard commercial venture.

 

Which is also a good example of why many, many mods will always be available for free.

 

It seems people are panicking because they think they are going to lose access to all their free goodies.  They need to relax, the vast majority of stuff that is already available is going to stay free.  What they may miss out on, if they never want to pay, is some awesome new content that gets created (if this whole experiment succeeds.)

[LegacyStijncat]

These aren't reasons, they are excuses.

That is subjective! From the against viewpoint they are reasons, from the supportive viewpoint it's just gibberish.

 

 

Tell us what really bothers you.

(Holy s*** that's nice O_-. Didn't expect that on the internet!)

I think it's great that modders can get supported. They are talented people and deserve more praise than they get. But THIS is not the way to do it. If I play a mod, and I see how good it is and how passionate the developer is, than I would prefer to go to the tip jar and put a tip into it. But this system gets shoved down our throat, and Valve screams Deal with it while they kick the mod developers in the stomach. This is another system of Valve which can get exploited to Oblivion _{(see what I did there)}, just like Greenlight and Early Access. Noone benefits from it besides Valve themselves. And it's evil.

 

Mods should in my opinion, remain free to some extent. I would like to see a demo of a mod for free, and than expansion packs / full versions of it for cash money. That is a good way to do this. Not forcing people.

[LegacyStijncat]

Thank you ^^

I totally agree, we need a place to sell/share mods that is so easy to use that copycats won't have a chance. I don't have a problem with the platform getting like 20% of the cut since they still provide servers, payment. Also mods would be easier to find, and maybe even install, with one place to get them all. No more forum searching for mods. But seeing how much problems even Minecraft has with mods, a standard for all games ? This is the whole challenge ^^

Imagine if like Nexus makes a marketplace.

Mods are free at first. Than, devs can build up to their mod by adding expansion packs for example, or even a season-pass like system where you pay once for a mod, which will than get updated.

This way Nexus makes money because of advertisments, and the devs get money because of selling their stuff.

How does this sound?

[C0LL0SS0S]

Imagine if like Nexus makes a marketplace.

Mods are free at first. Than, devs can build up to their mod by adding expansion packs for example, or even a season-pass like system where you pay once for a mod, which will than get updated.

This way Nexus makes money because of advertisments, and the devs get money because of selling their stuff.

How does this sound?

Sounds quite promising, but the details are always very hard to think about when talking about such huge market places