Skyrim Modder Considers Quitting After Steam Controversy

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

Add a little bit of money to passion and can change any persons perspective.

How is a person using another persons mod an infringement when the mod itself not his property to begin with ? 

i can see two outcomes, one people quitting other platforms and jumping onboard to steam since you get a cheap payout none the less a payout , two - people quitting mods since people wont buy mods over time and they can't make it free since valve controls it.

and most of all, PC gamers always had that one thing to be proud of over console of having mods, well good luck using that as an argument where now you have to pay for it.

Skyrim modder Chesko didn’t have express permission to use an animation system from another modder in his paid Steam Workshop mod, but he did it anyway.

Then he removed it because the other modder got upset. End of story? Hardly. That was just the beginning.


 

Chesko took to Reddit to explain everything that’s happened to him in the wake of the controversy surrounding the paid-for Art of the Catch mod, which included an animation system created by another modder called Fore. Despite how black-and-white things might have seemed at the outset, this tale is actually a sludgy slurry of gray.

 

First Chesko explained why he decided to chain one of his mods to a paywall despite some misgivings with Valve and Bethesda’s plan. He wrote:

 

 

Things internally stayed rather positive and exciting until some of us discovered that “25% Revenue Share” meant 25% to the modder, not to Valve / Bethesda. This sparked a long internal discussion. My key argument to Bethesda (putting my own head on the chopping block at the time) was that this model incentivizes small, cheap to produce items (time-wise) than it does the large, full-scale mods that this system has the opportunity of championing. It does not reward the best and the biggest.

 

But at the heart of it, the argument came down to this: How much would you pay for front-page Steam coverage? How much would you pay to use someone else’s successful IP (with nearly no restrictions) for a commercial purpose? I know indie developers that would sell their houses for such an opportunity. And 25%, when someone else is doing the marketing, PR, brand building, sales, and so on, and all I have to do is “make stuff”, is actually pretty attractive. Is it fair? No. But it was an experiment I was willing to at least try.

 

And then he got to the heart of matters. Why did he attempt to sell something that wasn’t his? Or at least include said mod as part of his for-sale package? Well, he made the call in part because Valve allegedly said it should be fine. His final decision was not what you might call a good one, but he explained his rationale:

 

 

Of course, the modding community is a complex, tangled web of interdependencies and contributions. There were a lot of questions surrounding the use of tools and contributed assets, like FNIS, SKSE, SkyUI, and so on. The answer we were given is:

[Valve] Officer Mar 25 @ 4:47pm
 

Usual caveat: I am not a lawyer, so this does not constitute legal advice. If you are unsure, you should contact a lawyer. That said, I spoke with our lawyer and having mod A depend on mod B is fine—it doesn’t matter if mod A is for sale and mod B is free, or if mod A is free or mod B is for sale.
 

Art of the Catch required the download of a separate animation package, which was available for free, and contained an FNIS behavior file. Art of the Catch will function without this download, but any layman can of course see that a major component of it’s enjoyment required FNIS.
 

After a discussion with Fore, I made the decision to pull Art of the Catch down myself. (It was not removed by a staff member) Fore and I have talked since and we are OK.

 

On top of that, Chesko has decided to remove all of his mods from Steam’s curated Workshop. He cited the lack of control Valve offers over their pages (no real moderation to speak of, etc) as a big reason he’s pulling out. There’s just one problem: Chesko says Valve won’t let him. He can have mods marked as “unpurchasable,” but Valve won’t remove their pages from Steam. 

 

Chesko claimed he then heard from a Valve lawyer who had some not super great things to say:

 

I was just contacted by Valve’s lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless “legally compelled to do so”, and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in [separate mod] Arissa 2.0’s case, it’s black and white; that’s 100% mine and Griefmyst’s work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable.

So yeah, if true, that’s a seriously harsh policy on Valve’s part. I did some digging throughSteam’s subscriber agreement, and it does seem to give Valve the right to pull something like this, albeit through some tricky language. Here’s the most pertinent section:

 

 

“You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and ( B) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.”

 

If I’m reading that right, it’s a pretty fucking big “except.” I could see those exceptions working against modders who choose to sell their mods for cash (or even those who don’t),

 

given that both A and B could technically apply to any situation in which someone puts a mod up for distribution on Steam at all.

 

Further, the section on revenue sharing seems to suggest that publishers not modders have ultimate say in terms of mod pricing. So that is probably something else to at least be aware of, though it did not specifically come into play here.

 

All of this, especially the lack of control, has left Chesko tired. I reached out to him in an attempt to clarify recent events, and all he could offer was this terse, tired reply:

“Unfortunately I am beyond worn-down. My hobby has suddenly taken over my life and it needs to stop.”

 

 

In the Reddit post he suggested that leaving behind this mad mod world entirely is also an option. “ I have other things I could spend my energy on,” he wrote. Since then, he has deleted his Reddit account, in addition to multiple social media profiles. He also appears to have deleted the Steam pages for all of his Skyrim mods. Presumably, however, people who purchased or downloaded said mods can still access the pages and their files.

 

The long and short of it? Valve’s opened a veritable Pandora’s Box of potential issues with paid-for Steam Workshop mods, and monsters are bound to emerge. There are plenty of possible upsides (more mods, better mods, more focused, professional teams, well-earned money for hardworking people), but there’s a lot to be concerned about at this point.

 

Chesko was not entirely blameless in his situation, but he was also, at least in part, a victim of an untested, incomplete system. If a machine designed to benefit modders is capable of chewing them up and spitting them out like this, it might be time to consider a different approach or at least offer modders a little more control.

Source : http://steamed.kotaku.com/skyrim-modder-considers-quitting-after-steam-controvers-1700077114
 

[Dabombinable]

*sigh*

[mr.skyrim_pc]

This whole "pay for mod" thing is really dumb. Valve should have made a tip jar instead. Does anyone use the steam workshop for mods anyway?

[ImBleu]

Paid mods was such a mistake...

[thekeemo]

This whole "pay for mod" thing is really dumb. Valve should have made a tip jar instead. Does anyone use the steam workshop for mods anyway?

it sure makes it easier

[Unlikelyjoker]

Do you like paying for mods?

If so buy the fixed apple mod....

[mr.skyrim_pc]

it sure makes it easier

The nexus mod manager isnt very hard though

[Dabombinable]

The nexus mod manager isnt very hard though

Its been a while, but the open mod manager? Allows you to simply install the mods from a folder without affecting the game. And I still haven't come across an issue with no set load order.

[Opask]

Its been a while, but the open mod manager? Allows you to simply install the mods from a folder without affecting the game. And I still haven't come across an issue with no set load order.

You mean mod organizer right?

 

It is a fantastic tool. Keeping your skryim install directory is really nice as well.

[ObscureMammal]

Forbes actually had a pretty good article on this subject - http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/04/24/valves-paid-skyrim-mods-are-a-legal-ethical-and-creative-disaster/

[Dabombinable]

You mean mod organizer right?

 

It is a fantastic tool. Keeping your skryim install directory is really nice as well.

Yes, that one.

[Beskamir]

It's unfortunate that the modding community has lost another modder. Hopefully we don't lose any more skilled modders as a result of this terrible mistake on Valve's and Bethesda's part. If anyone should get the blunt of this storm it should be those 2 companies; not the modders that agreed to selling their mods. They were likely under NDA and were curious to try something new so they weren't innocent but they should not be attacked for it to this extent.

[sgloux3470]

Valve won't remove it because people have paid for it and they DO NOT remove anything from Steam unless they absolutely have to. 

 

That was in their policy that he agreed to in the first place.

 

As long as it's not visible to new people, I think that's a fair compromise.

 

I would be pissed if I bought a mod and the modder decided one day "Nah, I don't want people to have it anymore" and it got removed from my game.

[Misanthrope]

I don't really blame Chesko for jumping on what he thought was a nice opportunity but he was pretty fucking stupid: Why would you take legal advise from Valve, how could you possibly think that they would take your legal interests into their account and not only their own? Of course Valve would just say "Nope, our lawyers said that we're ok, we don't give a fuck if it destroys your life and your hopes at a career as a modder, since we're ok with content theft legally"

 

The guy should submit DMCA claims on his own content to legally compel Valve to behave but at this point I guess he will just hide for a few months and hope some of the crazier assholes around the internet down keep hunting him down to harass him.

 

Edit: And by the way, this is a devastating lost since you will loose mods like Arissa and Frostfall, mods that are on virtually every single skyrim mods recommendations lists.

[Dabombinable]

I don't really blame Chesko for jumping on what he thought was a nice opportunity but he was pretty fucking stupid: Why would you take legal advise from Valve, how could you possibly think that they would take your legal interests into their account and not only their own? Of course Valve would just say "Nope, our lawyers said that we're ok, we don't give a fuck if it destroys your life and your hopes at a career as a modder, since we're ok with content theft legally"

 

The guy should submit DMCA claims on his own content to legally compel Valve to behave but at this point I guess he will just hide for a few months and hope some of the crazier assholes around the internet down keep hunting him down to harass him.

 

Edit: And by the way, this is a devastating lost since you will loose mods like Arissa and Frostfall, mods that are on virtually every single skyrim mods recommendations lists.

Luckily I downloaded the top 100-200 mods, I take it all of his would be included?

[Misanthrope]

Luckily I downloaded the top 100-200 mods, I take it all of his would be included?

 

Not future updates which were big and presumably cancelled: Chesko released a camping mod a few days ago and talked about it being incompatible with current Frostfall since he was going to do a new version with several modules, one of them being the camping meaning the features were going to be modular: Hypothermia module, fishing module, camping module, etc.

 

Now you have to choose between frostfall or the new camping mod that looked to have many new and nicer features.

[deviant88]

It was very obvious any sort of monetization of free mods would ruin this tradition completely Steam needs to get rid of it asap.

[ObscureMammal]

So now Valve has denied users access to discussion boards on paid mods - https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33sxmu/valve_has_denied_users_access_to_discussion/

 

https://imgur.com/a/nn47B

  

[TroubleKlef]

I didn't read the entire post but it sounds eerily similar to the Nvidia and Samsung case going on