2 Seperate windows installations on 2 seperate SSD's, each one with it's own HDD assigned to it, restricting acces to 'the other side'

[Redpalmtree]

I'm building my friend a DAW system.

 

He wants to seperate work and private completely. He asks me if it is possible to run 2 windows installations, both on a different SSD. The first question I asked myself when he asked this was: Won't you have to change the boot order in your mobo EVERY time you switch, or is there a solution for this?

 

The second thing he asked for me is that he wants 3 HDD's total, 2 of them assigned to one SSD and the remaining 1 to be assigned to the other SSD. He wants me to restrict acces to his 'Work' SSD and HDD when he's on his 'Private' windows installation and vice versa; effectively seperating WORK and PRIVATE.

 

Please tell me this is possible, and how to accomplish this, because I have no idea how to

[JeffreyEagan]

Uhhhhhhh. what? I don't even think that's possible.

[Archangel1994]

2 windows installations without a program to sort it out on 2 seperate disks will not work. You need a dual boot program to have this done. Also you cannot assign disks to an OS. If they have an active partition (Like the standard entire disk size partition) they WILL be detected.

 

What he asks can not be done

[Flyguygamer]

It can be done, install windows on one ssd and then remove it and install the second ssd and install windows on that. plug them both in a set ub the dual boot so it asks him each time he boots which os he wants.

Now add the hard drives and restrict access.

[Flyguygamer]

2 windows installations without a program to sort it out on 2 seperate disks will not work. You need a dual boot program to have this done. Also you cannot assign disks to an OS. If they have an active partition (Like the standard entire disk size partition) they WILL be detected.

 

What he asks can not be done

I have done it, win 7 and win 8 with no access to each others drives.

[Archangel1994]

I have done it, win 7 and win 8 with no access to each others drives.

Really? I call bullshit, I tried this myself and I had 0 success after countless tries/methods.

[Flyguygamer]

Really? I call bullshit, I tried this myself and I had 0 success after countless tries/methods.

It was all on one drive and partitioned. That might have something to do with it. When I boot win 7 and do E: in cmd (E; is win 8) access denied. Same in win 8.

It works on one drive so I assume it would work with more than one.

[Redpalmtree]

It can be done, install windows on one ssd and then remove it and install the second ssd and install windows on that. plug them both in a set ub the dual boot so it asks him each time he boots which os he wants.

Now add the hard drives and restrict access.

 

The part about the installing windows on the SSD's is now clear to me, thanks. 

 

How exactly do you set up the dual boot so that it asks you?

How do you restrict acces from drive to drive?

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

The part about the installing windows on the SSD's is now clear to me, thanks. 

 

How exactly do you set up the dual boot so that it asks you?

How do you restrict acces from drive to drive?

Not sure how to set up the boot, I did a similar thing (Win7, Vista and Mint, installed in that order) and Linux's bootloader sorted everything out for me. 

But that would require a third OS on there and GRUB does take some setting up in order to display the names like you want etc.

 

 

 

As for how you restrict access, that's easy.  Before you actually use the Windows installs, do the following.

 

Boot the PC, select one of the Windows installations to boot from

 

In that Windows install :

1 ) open control panel -> Administrative tools -> Computer management, then select "Disk management" in the left-hand column.

2 ) Find the disk with the other (the inactive) Windows install and select its Windows partition

3 ) Right-click the partition, select "change drive letter and paths"

4 ) Click the Remove button

(this will only remove the drive letter in the Windows install you're using, not the partition itself.  Basically this stops the other disk from being visible in "my computer")

5 ) If disk management shows a prompt asking you if you're sure, click "yes" to verify.

6 ) reboot and go into the other Windows install

 

In said other Windows install :

Repeat steps 1 to 5 listed above, then reboot.

 

Now whenever you boot any Windows install, you won't see the other disk.

[Redpalmtree]

Not sure how to set up the boot, I did a similar thing (Win7, Vista and Mint, installed in that order) and Linux's bootloader sorted everything out for me. 

But that would require a third OS on there and GRUB does take some setting up in order to display the names like you want etc.

 

 

 

As for how you restrict access, that's easy.  Before you actually use the Windows installs, do the following.

 

Boot the PC, select one of the Windows installations to boot from

 

In that Windows install :

1 ) open control panel -> Administrative tools -> Computer management, then select "Disk management" in the left-hand column.

2 ) Find the disk with the other (the inactive) Windows install and select its Windows partition

3 ) Right-click the partition, select "change drive letter and paths"

4 ) Click the Remove button

(this will only remove the drive letter in the Windows install you're using, not the partition itself.  Basically this stops the other disk from being visible in "my computer")

5 ) If disk management shows a prompt asking you if you're sure, click "yes" to verify.

6 ) reboot and go into the other Windows install

 

In said other Windows install :

Repeat steps 1 to 5 listed above, then reboot.

 

Now whenever you boot any Windows install, you won't see the other disk.

Holy shit, thanks for the insight on hiding drives on other installations!

 

So now the only thing I have to find out is how to get an option screen before boot and after POST that gives me the option to select different windows installations that are on different SSD's, without having to change boot order every time.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

For that, I'd personally use a Linux install, probably mint because of the familiarities if you're used to Windows.  It's a lot of work, but IMO the best solution.

 

 

 

Let's use 240GB SSDs for the next example (not sure what capacity you'll actually use). 

 

Give one of them a partition for the full 240GB.  Give the other SSD a 220GB partition and leave 20GB unallocated.  (you can go down to 5 or so if you want)

Install Windows on the partitions you made on the SSDs

 

With both SSDs installed in the PC and Windows installed on both, boot the PC from a Linux live stick (plenty of tutorials on how to make that) and install Linux alongside Windows on the 20GB you left unallocated before. 

Personally I'd use the manual set up for that, to make sure Linux installs itself on the correct SSD.  It's more advanced work, but there are loads of tutorials on that too.

 

During that install, the GRUB bootloader will be installed and will detect all 3 operating systems.  From then on, you'll be able to select them.

 

 

 

However Grub will not show them properly by default.  It'l look similar to this, but with 2 lines mentioning the Windows install. 

You can change that, but that means you'll need to install Grub Customizer in Linux

 

press Ctrl+Alt+T on keyboard to open the terminal. When it opens, paste the commands below and run one by one:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:danielrichter2007/grub-customizer

sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get install grub-customizer

 

With grub Customizer, you can rename the individual entries, move them up or down or even remove them altogether.  You can also tell it how long it needs to show the screen before automatically booting to a default OS.  That OS can be any one you choose, or you can tell it to boot the last one used.  It's a bit of fiddling, but you sound like you'll be able to pull it off.

 

 

This approach has another advantage : if a virus ever infects one of his installs to the point where it won't boot, he can boot into Linux and use that to retrieve the files from either Windows install or even fix the problem.

[Redpalmtree]

For that, I'd personally use a Linux install, probably mint because of the familiarities if you're used to Windows.  It's a lot of work, but IMO the best solution.

 

 

 

Let's use 240GB SSDs for the next example (not sure what capacity you'll actually use). 

 

Give one of them a partition for the full 240GB.  Give the other SSD a 220GB partition and leave 20GB unallocated.  (you can go down to 5 or so if you want)

Install Windows on the partitions you made on the SSDs

 

With both SSDs installed in the PC and Windows installed on both, boot the PC from a Linux live stick (plenty of tutorials on how to make that) and install Linux alongside Windows on the 20GB you left unallocated before. 

Personally I'd use the manual set up for that, to make sure Linux installs itself on the correct SSD.  It's more advanced work, but there are loads of tutorials on that too.

 

During that install, the GRUB bootloader will be installed and will detect all 3 operating systems.  From then on, you'll be able to select them.

 

 

 

However Grub will not show them properly by default.  It'l look similar to this, but with 2 lines mentioning the Windows install. 

You can change that, but that means you'll need to install Grub Customizer in Linux

 

press Ctrl+Alt+T on keyboard to open the terminal. When it opens, paste the commands below and run one by one:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:danielrichter2007/grub-customizer

sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get install grub-customizer

 

With grub Customizer, you can rename the individual entries, move them up or down or even remove them altogether.  You can also tell it how long it needs to show the screen before automatically booting to a default OS.  That OS can be any one you choose, or you can tell it to boot the last one used.  It's a bit of fiddling, but you sound like you'll be able to pull it off.

 

 

This approach has another advantage : if a virus ever infects one of his installs to the point where it won't boot, he can boot into Linux and use that to retrieve the files from either Windows install oreven fix the problem.

You're brilliant, thank you so much

 

I will post a build log of this one and I'll definetly mention you in it.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Happy to help.
 
For your info, here's a screenshot of an edited GRUB.  That's my own (rather old) netbook, running a triple boot from a single SSD.  Same principle, both versions of windows don't show the other one's partition.
 

I named them normally, but you can call them "Work", "Private", "I like cake" or whatever you want.
Currently the 4th entry is highlighted on mine, but that's Memtest86+ (to make the proper entries more visible for my camera).
I set it up to give me this screen for 15 seconds, and boot whatever OS I used last if I don't respond in that timeframe.

excuse the AZERTY keyboards, we like to do things differently here.

-----

EDIT : And in case you were wondering : Neither Windows install will ever see the Linux partition due to Windows not supporting the format Linux uses (EXT2 or 3, even 4 on modern kernels)

-----

EDIT 2 : I completely forgot about the extra hard drives you mentioned in the 2nd part of your original post.  As you may have suspected already, the hiding trick will work for those too.
Drive letters are assigned by the active system.  Removing a drive letter in one Windows install will not affect anything in the other install. Basically you can have a C, D and E in the "Work" configuration and then a different C and D if you boot in the "Private" system. Pretty neat really.  You can even use a disk on multiple installs, giving it a different drive letter in each one if you want.

 

 

Linux will see all drives, which isn't really a problem. If he ever really needs to boot into Linux, it'll probably be for a good reason and access to all disks might come in handy.

One remark though if you want to use multi-boot in combination with secondary hard disks, and it's VERY important if you don't like clutter :

 

Windows and Linux have different ways of handling recycle bins.

Linux uses a ".Trash-####" folder (#### being the ID of the user who created the folder, usually 1000) with all the files neatly stored in it.

Windows 7 uses a "$RECYCLE.BIN" folder with several seemingly random files in there.

In both systems, these folders will only be created the first time you send stuff to the recycle bin.  In both systems you will see the other system's folder in the hard disk's root folder.

You can delete the windows bin when you're in Linux (although most experts advise against it), but not the other way around.

As soon as you move something to the recycle bin in Linux, the recycle bin folder will be created.  That one will be visible in Windows and you won't be able to delete or even hide it.  You can't delete the actual folder in Linux either.  Basically it'll be there until you format the partition it's on.

The only good solution is prevention.  When deleting files in Linux, always use the shift+del key combination to do a hard delete.  That way there's no bin involved.

 

I know that's a bit much info at one time, and in an in-depth discussion I reckon we're both better off doing it in Dutch.  So if you need help, feel free to PM me. 

[Redpalmtree]

Happy to help.

 

For your info, here's a screenshot of an edited GRUB.  That's my own (rather old) netbook, running a triple boot from a single SSD.  Same principle, both versions of windows don't show the other one's partition.

 

I named them normally, but you can call them "Work", "Private", "I like cake" or whatever you want.

Currently the 4th entry is highlighted on mine, but that's Memtest86+ (to make the proper entries more visible for my camera).

I set it up to give me this screen for 15 seconds, and boot whatever OS I used last if I don't respond in that timeframe.

excuse the AZERTY keyboards, we like to do things differently here.

-----

EDIT : And in case you were wondering : Neither Windows install will ever see the Linux partition due to Windows not supporting the format Linux uses (EXT2 or 3, even 4 on modern kernels)

-----

EDIT 2 : I completely forgot about the extra hard drives you mentioned in the 2nd part of your original post.  As you may have suspected already, the hiding trick will work for those too.

Drive letters are assigned by the active system.  Removing a drive letter in one Windows install will not affect anything in the other install. Basically you can have a C, D and E in the "Work" configuration and then a different C and D if you boot in the "Private" system. Pretty neat really.  You can even use a disk on multiple installs, giving it a different drive letter in each one if you want.

 

 

Linux will see all drives, which isn't really a problem. If he ever really needs to boot into Linux, it'll probably be for a good reason and access to all disks might come in handy.

One remark though if you want to use multi-boot in combination with secondary hard disks, and it's VERY important if you don't like clutter :

 

Windows and Linux have different ways of handling recycle bins.

Linux uses a ".Trash-####" folder (#### being the ID of the user who created the folder, usually 1000) with all the files neatly stored in it.

Windows 7 uses a "$RECYCLE.BIN" folder with several seemingly random files in there.

In both systems, these folders will only be created the first time you send stuff to the recycle bin.  In both systems you will see the other system's folder in the hard disk's root folder.

You can delete the windows bin when you're in Linux (although most experts advise against it), but not the other way around.

As soon as you move something to the recycle bin in Linux, the recycle bin folder will be created.  That one will be visible in Windows and you won't be able to delete or even hide it.  You can't delete the actual folder in Linux either.  Basically it'll be there until you format the partition it's on.

The only good solution is prevention.  When deleting files in Linux, always use the shift+del key combination to do a hard delete.  That way there's no bin involved.

 

I know that's a bit much info at one time, and in an in-depth discussion I reckon we're both better off doing it in Dutch.  So if you need help, feel free to PM me. 

I will PM you when we actually get all parts, so I can actually begin building it.

 

One more thing: I told him what you told me about deleting the partition paths so it won't show. In response he asked me: 'That's nice, but are virusses still able to cross-over'?

[Zubkover]

Well... this may seem pretty idiotic but... why not just install OS on 2 SSD separatly and use manual switch for SATA cables...?

I mean... some issues are solved easier in hardware, than sofware... D:

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

TBH I have no idea. Windows will still know that the drives are there (after all they do show up in Disk Management), so theoretically it is possible.

However I reckon it's unlikely. Most viruses focus on the OS itself and sometimes removable media (to infect other PCs via USB sticks). Perhaps someone who builds virusses could chime in here?

What kind of viruses does he plan to attract? While the theory is simple, a tri-boot setup like this takes time and having to format one Windows install may have its effect on the bootloader and that could complicate matters. You probably won't be looking forward to sorting that out every few months.

Actually I'm not 100% sure on the bootloader getting messed up, I luckily haven't had any issues with my setup yet.

In my case an infection would most likely result in me completely wiping the SSD and starting over from scratch. Being on a single SSD does make such setups more difficult due to all the partitioning.

Installing the OSes and setting up GRUB takes around 1.5 - 2 hours if you're not used to it ... and then you'll spend the rest of the day installing the updates and the software.

[Deli]

Well... this may seem pretty idiotic but... why not just install OS on 2 SSD separatly and use manual switch for SATA cables...?

I mean... some issues are solved easier in hardware, than sofware... D:

Pardon my ignorance. You mean open the case unplugs one sata cable and plugs it back to another SSD every time? Or there is some sort of mechanical switch outside the PC that can switch between SSDs like turning on and off a light bulb?

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Apparently there are such switches that control the power to the HDDs and SSDs, both for installation in a PCI slot or for front panels.

Thanks for bringing up that idea, Zubkover and Deli. I'd have never thought of that.

That's neat indeed, and a certain way of making sure that the other drives are indeed not available at all.

Actually if the switches are powerful enough, you could run a splitter to let one switch give power to the SSD and the HDDs that should be active along with said SSD.

That would make things a LOT easier. Press button 1 for work, button 2 for home use. Just don't have both on at the same time.

I'm all for that approach. It's going to save you hours of work and make maintenance and troubleshooting a lot easier.

[dalekphalm]

@Redpalmtree I feel like you and @Captain Chaos are making the Dual Boot config more complicated then it needs to be.

 

When you install the first OS, choose whichever SSD you want (assuming both SSD's are equal in size). Then, install the second OS on the second SSD. Windows will automatically detect multiple installs and create a bootloader menu (I'm dual booting Windows 7 and 10 at work, and Windows 8 and 10 at home).

 

You can then edit the names of the two OS's after the fact to create clarity. This guide is pretty good here:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/5110-dual-boot-change-os-name-windows-boot-manager.html

 

Option 2 in the guide is easiest. It uses a well known and well regarded boot editing program called "EasyBCD".

 

I highly suggest not using a Linux bootloader or anything like that. You're just adding complexity to a situation that doesn't need it. The reason why I suggest this is because if anything ever goes wrong, you now have an added part to the puzzle that you have to troubleshoot. Especially if you are unfamiliar with Linux at all, this can pose a problem.

 

You're of course welcome to still follow @Captain Chaos and his suggestion, as it will definitely work, but I'm just concerned about adding in unnecessary steps.

 

In terms of hiding the drives, @Captain Chaos has that spot on, simply removing the drive letters in the appropriate Windows install will work fine. It's not rocket proof, but if the guy just wants to make sure he's not distracted while "working", then it will do fine.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

@ Dalek : It's complicated indeed (which is why I was a bit reluctant to mention it at first), but it always worked for me. The fact that I need Linux for creating Android ROMs does of course mean that GRUB is my automatic first choice.

You mention dualbooting 7 and 10 or 8 and 10. I know that works just fine, but does the dualboot option work properly if you install the same version of Windows twice? I'd think that the DVD will detect the first OS and think it needs repairing or replacing.

EDIT : By the way, how do you do the mentions thing like that? Paste the user's profile page as a link?

[dalekphalm]

@ Dalek : It's complicated indeed (which is why I was a bit reluctant to mention it at first), but it always worked for me. The fact that I need Linux for creating Android ROMs does of course mean that GRUB is my automatic first choice.

You mention dualbooting 7 and 10 or 8 and 10. I know that works just fine, but does the dualboot option work properly if you install the same version of Windows twice? I'd think that the DVD will detect the first OS and think it needs repairing or replacing.

EDIT : By the way, how do you do the mentions thing like that? Paste the user's profile page as a link?

It should work totally fine with two identical versions of Windows. You're right, it would detect the 1st install, on the 1st SSD, but it would only ask you to repair or replace if you selected that same volume (the same partition specifically) on that SSD. If you select the 2nd SSD as the destination, then it will detect no OS's present, and should let you continue.

 

Granted, I've never actually dual booted two identical OS's, but there's no technical reason why it can't work. @GoodBytes have you ever done this? You're basically our resident Microsoft expert

 

Oh and @Captain Chaos how you make the names come up as a source is quite simple actually.

 

You format it like this:

@[username]

Where [username] would be replaced by "Captain Chaos" without the quotations. Some usernames won't work right away (since the forum detects certain characters to mean "ANYTHING AFTER THIS ISN'T THE USERNAME".

 

Also keep in mind that if you "copy" the username from, say, the profile picture to the left of your post, then you need to remember to "PASTE PLAIN TEXT", which is by default "ctrl + shift + v".

 

If you use Adblock Plus, you'll need to go into the settings ("about:config" in the address bar) and change some key commands, since for some stupid ass reason, ADP overwrites the Paste Plain Text command with one of their own.

 

Did you get all that @Captain Chaos? @Captain Chaos @Captain Chaos @Captain Chaos muahaha

 

Edit: Not only does it post a link to your profile, but it also sends you a notification (even if you weren't quoted or anything).

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

Thanks for the info @[dalekphalm]

So basically it works with 2 different drives. I never tried it that way, but I do remember that on a single-disk laptop it wouldn't work.

EDIT : hmm, the mention thing is going to need some work still. Perhaps it's too easy for me.  :lol:

Probably my Ghostery settings, but I'm not planning to alter those, not even here.

[Redpalmtree]

@Redpalmtree I feel like you and @Captain Chaos are making the Dual Boot config more complicated then it needs to be.

 

When you install the first OS, choose whichever SSD you want (assuming both SSD's are equal in size). Then, install the second OS on the second SSD. Windows will automatically detect multiple installs and create a bootloader menu (I'm dual booting Windows 7 and 10 at work, and Windows 8 and 10 at home).

 

You can then edit the names of the two OS's after the fact to create clarity. This guide is pretty good here:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/5110-dual-boot-change-os-name-windows-boot-manager.html

 

Option 2 in the guide is easiest. It uses a well known and well regarded boot editing program called "EasyBCD".

 

I highly suggest not using a Linux bootloader or anything like that. You're just adding complexity to a situation that doesn't need it. The reason why I suggest this is because if anything ever goes wrong, you now have an added part to the puzzle that you have to troubleshoot. Especially if you are unfamiliar with Linux at all, this can pose a problem.

 

You're of course welcome to still follow @Captain Chaos and his suggestion, as it will definitely work, but I'm just concerned about adding in unnecessary steps.

 

In terms of hiding the drives, @Captain Chaos has that spot on, simply removing the drive letters in the appropriate Windows install will work fine. It's not rocket proof, but if the guy just wants to make sure he's not distracted while "working", then it will do fine.

Thanks for your insight.

 

I am a little bit familiar with Linux and I think it will be interesting to put on there just to show him what it's about. I will decide how to go about it later on when I can actually start building it.

 

At least I know which direction to go, lots of useful links in here!

[Zubkover]

Pardon my ignorance. You mean open the case unplugs one sata cable and plugs it back to another SSD every time? Or there is some sort of mechanical switch outside the PC that can switch between SSDs like turning on and off a light bulb?

The second one. Splitter it is called I believe. And I'm actually planning on making sth like this for every of my monitors on my desk to maintain their turned on/off process easier than by all switches on each screen.

[dalekphalm]

Thanks for the info @[dalekphalm]

So basically it works with 2 different drives. I never tried it that way, but I do remember that on a single-disk laptop it wouldn't work.

EDIT : hmm, the mention thing is going to need some work still. Perhaps it's too easy for me.  :lol:

Probably my Ghostery settings, but I'm not planning to alter those, not even here.

Haha all you need to do is remove the [ ] square brackets. I guess I forgot to mention that