Possibly upgrading from Canon 1000D. DSLR, mirrorless or...?

[Ruostunut kokis]

So I've thought of finally upgrading my Canon 1000D. While I'm a little poor and don't use a camera much (due to the camera hysteria in this country: show up in public with your camera out and people will stop you and ask to delete everything you have about them), I think that I should upgrade my 1000D to some camera that's better in low light scenario: 1000D is painful to use in even my room's lighting, indoors you have to have aperture at the widest possible value (f3,5 in the 18-55mm kit lens), have ISO at the highest possible value (ISO 1600, not a whole lot), and you still have to have slower shutter speed than 1/10th of a second most of the time.

 

So I have some choices as I've looked through some second-hand cameras, and found following:

 

• Canon 600D with 18-55mm kit lens, auction starting from 270€. From my experience I know that will rise, but most likely will be around 300€ or so.
• Canon 700D body only, auction starting from 270€. Again, from my experience I know that will rise, but this time it could get above 400€ which is over my budget.
• Olympys PEN Lite E-PL3 with 18-42mm kit lens, going for 180€. Nothing more or less. I though of maybe going towards micro four thirds cameras, but new ones are still expensive, and the lenses are a very rare sight on second-hand markets right now. Plus I'm not sure how's the video quality gonna be on that one...

And I've also though of perhaps looking for a decent pocket camera with manual controls instead, such as Sony RX-100. I've also though of maybe upgrading my phone for a little more modern one and maybe getting a better camera with that, but unfortunately from what I've read, Android phones can't have necessary manual controls like changing the shutter speed (why?), so I'll be skipping that option.

 

So I'm asking: should I continue with the DSLR route, pick the mirrorless camera instead (although I'd hope it has good video quality, even though I don't record anything), or get an easy to carry and not too intimidating pocket camera with manual controls? You can throw in your own suggestions as well, but I'd prefer to stick to under 300€ budget, and at that point you can't find almost any new camera that's decent and has manual controls.

[Flight1sim]

I'd go DSLR, dont suffer with point and shoots, even good ones.

Have you tried other firmwares to help with the low light?

[Fate]

You're really not going to get too much better low light performance out of an APS-C camera other than the new Canon 7D Mark 2 which is $1800. If you want low light performance, get a lens with a wide maximum aperture (like a 50mm 1.8, 35mm 1.8, etc) or a full frame camera.

[Ruostunut kokis]

I'd go DSLR, dont suffer with point and shoots, even good ones.

Have you tried other firmwares to help with the low light?

1000D doesn't have much custom firmware. And even if it had, the shots would be as noise riddled as trying to shoot with a smartphone camera in low light.

[Ruostunut kokis]

You're really not going to get too much better low light performance out of an APS-C camera other than the new Canon 7D Mark 2 which is $1800. If you want low light performance, get a lens with a wide maximum aperture (like a 50mm 1.8, 35mm 1.8, etc) or a full frame camera.

I have 50mm f1.8 lens. Unfortunately not so good in tight spaces, but at least allows to shoot indoors handheld without getting shaken and blurred to hell photos. Though the depth-of-field at f1.8 makes it difficult to focus on things...

[SeanAngelo]

get a nikon dslr body only and get a 35mm 1.8.

 

a 35mm is equivalent to a 50mm on a full frame camera. a 50mm on a crop body is equivalent to 75mm.

[Ruostunut kokis]

get a nikon dslr body only and get a 35mm 1.8.

 

a 35mm is equivalent to a 50mm on a full frame camera. a 50mm on a crop body is equivalent to 75mm.

I know the crop factors already. But I'm not making a switch to Nikon, even though I don't have invested too much in Canon's ecosystem yet. It's not bad or anything, but if I choose to stick with DSLRs, I'll most likely stick with Canon, as I'm already quite significantly more familiar with that.

 

If I'd go mirrorless route or choose a quality pocket camera with manual controls, it's a different story then. Then it would be almost whatever.

[.spider.]

IMO it makes no sense to upgrade the body because of a better signal noise ratio if you want to stay with APS-C.

There wasn't such improvement in sensor technology.

I would

1. learn how to reduce the noise with ETTR (Exposure To The Right)

2. not crop the images so you have to get the framing right while you take the picture (of course a bit cropping is no problem)

3. buy software with good denoising algorithms eg. Lightroom since version 4

4. learn how to sharpen an image without dramatically increasing the noise

5. buy better lenses instead of a body

[Ruostunut kokis]

IMO it makes no sense to upgrade the body because of a better signal noise ratio if you want to stay with APS-C.

There wasn't such improvement in sensor technology.

I would

1. learn how to reduce the noise with ETTR (Exposure To The Right)

2. not crop the images so you have to get the framing right while you take the picture (of course a bit cropping is no problem)

3. buy software with good denoising algorithms eg. Lightroom since version 4

4. learn how to sharpen an image without dramatically increasing the noise

5. buy better lenses instead of a body

I'm doing ETTR whenever I remember to do it. Still need some learning on it, though.

 

I very rarely crop anything. If I post them anywhere though, then I do downscale them (smaller file size, plus who would want an around 3888 x 2592 or similar image that fills the entire screen anyway, even though websites do usually resize them).

 

I'm not too keen on relying on software, especially for something that needs to be paid for. I try to stick to using free software as much as I can, since I'm not doing anything professionally. I'm just a hobbyist.

 

As for lenses... Yeah the EF 50mm f1.8 does fairly well, but even that is pushing it when the maximum available ISO is only 1600, and going for something with even wider aperture... No-go with my budget. But something higher than f3.5 does help. Can barely do any handheld shots indoors with f3.5, have to rely on tripod for 90% of the time to get acceptable shots, and 50mm is too long focal length for most indoor shots thanks to the 1.6x crop factor.

[.spider.]

Or you buy an external flash and Lee filter foil No.204

[evinta]

I have been in your boat, got a 600D with a 1.8 and bang problem nearly solved. For the price your paying. Camera RAW does the rest.

[Ruostunut kokis]

Or you buy an external flash and Lee filter foil No.204

If nothing, I might do just that. That, or continue using a little ghetto-ish lighting, that is phone camera LEDs with thin paper sheets in front of them making the light softer...

 

I have been in your boat, got a 600D with a 1.8 and bang problem nearly solved. For the price your paying. Camera RAW does the rest.

Yeah... I should probably do RAW. Though I should figure out in what programs can RAW files be opened (for example I can't open them in GIMP so I can't convert them to JPEGs).

 

I just noticed there's only 30 minutes left in auctioning of that Canon 700D body I just mentioned, and no-one has even looked for it. It's still 270€, while it's pushing my budget maybe a little, you don't find 700D's that cheap anywhere. Heck some even sell just 550D bodies for over 300€ here... I might take my chances.

 

Edit: the seller is fairly new, no former sales or anything. Maybe I'll pass this time...

[.spider.]

You take jpeg pictures? These older Canons are not built for that yes you have picture styles but the jpeg processing remains bad.

Also I don't know how you do ETTR without taking RAW pictures.

[Ruostunut kokis]

You take jpeg pictures? These older Canons are not built for that yes you have picture styles but the jpeg processing remains bad.

Also I don't know how you do ETTR without taking RAW pictures.

You need to do RAW in order to do ETTR? I guess I got the terminology wrong...

 

But yeah... I should begin to shoot RAW and convert to JPEGs on computer instead.

[.spider.]

You can do ETTR with jpeg but its not that beneficial.

[Ruostunut kokis]

You can do ETTR with jpeg but its not that beneficial.

It does seem to help, but I bet it would help a ton more with RAW files.

[davidvu396]

I'd recommend the Sony Alpha 58.

[evinta]

If nothing, I might do just that. That, or continue using a little ghetto-ish lighting, that is phone camera LEDs with thin paper sheets in front of them making the light softer...

 

Yeah... I should probably do RAW. Though I should figure out in what programs can RAW files be opened (for example I can't open them in GIMP so I can't convert them to JPEGs).

 

I just noticed there's only 30 minutes left in auctioning of that Canon 700D body I just mentioned, and no-one has even looked for it. It's still 270€, while it's pushing my budget maybe a little, you don't find 700D's that cheap anywhere. Heck some even sell just 550D bodies for over 300€ here... I might take my chances.

 

Edit: the seller is fairly new, no former sales or anything. Maybe I'll pass this time...

 

You can get a photographer package from adobe for around $10 a month and that will give you photoshop and bridge. Via bridge you can use adobe camera raw to edit the photos then mass jpg them while keeping the raws.

[Ruostunut kokis]

I'd recommend the Sony Alpha 58.

I've thought of SLTs. If the price was right, they could be an another viable option.

 

You can get a photographer package from adobe for around $10 a month and that will give you photoshop and bridge. Via bridge you can use adobe camera raw to edit the photos then mass jpg them while keeping the raws.

I might look into that in case there's no free RAW image editor and/or a RAW to JPEG converter.

[evinta]

I might look into that in case there's no free RAW image editor and/or a RAW to JPEG converter.

 

I am not sure but i think canon provides software when you buy the 600D. I just never installed it.

[.spider.]

I might look into that in case there's no free RAW image editor and/or a RAW to JPEG converter.

There are

Canons Digital Photo Professional and RawTherapee

I wouldn't spent 10 bucks each month for Photoshop if you get Lightroom for 140$ or 70$ for students.

As a Photographer you usually don't need Photoshop.

[davidvu396]

I've thought of SLTs. If the price was right, they could be an another viable option.

 

I might look into that in case there's no free RAW image editor and/or a RAW to JPEG converter.

The Sony Alpha 58 with the 18-55mm lens is 344€ over here in Germany, which I think is VERY GOOD value.

The D3300 with kit lens is 450€ over here.

[Ruostunut kokis]

The Sony Alpha 58 with the 18-55mm lens is 344€ over here in Germany, which I think is VERY GOOD value.

The D3300 with kit lens is 450€ over here.

Everything is more expensive here (well... More like: In Germany everything is cheaper than in the rest of EU). Sony alpha 58 would be somewhere above 400€ mark. D3300 is more than 500€ for body only. That's why I look so much for second-hand products, where prices are a lot more reasonable: like Canon 600D's are usually around 300 - 350€, Nikon D3200's are a little cheaper than that, too bad there's not much SLTs to be found (and as for second-hand lenses... Unless you're looking for EF/EF-S lenses or Nikon FX/DX (?) lenses, good luck finding other lenses than kit lenses).

[ZacDaMan72]

I'd go DSLR, dont suffer with point and shoots, even good ones.

Have you tried other firmwares to help with the low light?

I've used my aunt's Olympus OMD E-M5 with the M.Zuiko ED 12-40mm f2.8 and it was REALLY good and easy to get good shots!

 

OP, can you get the OMD E-M5?

[Ruostunut kokis]

I've used my aunt's Olympus OMD E-M5 with the M.Zuiko ED 12-40mm f2.8 and it was REALLY good and easy to get good shots!

 

OP, can you get the OMD E-M5?

I'm at school at the moment, so I don't have time right now to see how much would OMD E-M5s cost. More-so in the second-hand market.

 

If I could find a second-hand one for under 300€, then that could also be a possibility.