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New Xbox One Hardware In The Works

MEC-777

This might be a first: A console redesign that makes the original version the shit version also when it comes to performance? Tell me how Console gaming is more simple and convenient at this point then?

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Um, have you not noticed that most games are dev'd for console, and the best we PC gamers seem to get is a shittily made, poorly optimized pc port?

Bullshit. The games which make news are developed for consoles, but that does not mean PC gaming went and jumped off a cliff. Mind you, a lot of indie devs went to Valve, but they're still there churning out more games.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Who died and made them kings? Game studios have all the power to make those choices, and thank God most of them are independently owned.

Still you see games impregnated with proprietary tech, poor optimization and overall poor game development. Being independent doesn't mean they don't sell themselfs for the highest bidder.

 

 

And yeah, that'd be cool, but then what about all the v1.0 users? It'd be a big "FUCK YOU" to them. "SORRY YOU SUPPORTED US EARLY ON... SUCKERS! *Muahahaha*"

 

That happens with pc hardware, and people deal with it normaly. The 1.0 users will have full support asured for alot of years still, and will get the games for the platform they paid for.

No arm in that. In fact it was one of the things I thought it would be good for this gen of consoles, they could be evolving every year or two with little to no impact in game development. In fact you saw in the last year efforts being made by devs to release games in the older platforms.

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As long as console makers stay on x86, all they have to do is implement a check of the hardware to see which options/resolutions/framerates can be enabled. If they keep switching (Mips next?) then it's a problem.

 

Customers are like sheep. You have to REALLY screw up to alienate them. releasing a better version of a console 2 years later doesn't alienate anyone. They'll just upgrade as long as you provide an incentive ($250 credit on trade-in for instance).

Sure, I'm not saying it isn't technically possible, but it's pointless for the type of device they are selling.

 

That would unnecessarily increase dev time and cost, therefore meaning that they either need to sell more copies, or make the game more expensive. Either way, bad for us. That additional time could have been spent on making the game actually a better game, rather then compatibility testing and zeroing in the settings and performance for two versions.

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Bullshit. The games which make news are developed for consoles, but that does not mean PC gaming went and jumped off a cliff. Mind you, a lot of indie devs went to Valve, but they're still there churning out more games.

They are, but the "big budget" titles are getting worse and worse, at least for stuff from Ubisoft, and at least 1 title from Bethesda. Luckily we do have some companies left like the people that make the Metro franchise, etc.

 

Look at GTA V, we have to wait a long ass time to get ahold of that for PC, yet consoles get it first.

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Sure, I'm not saying it isn't technically possible, but it's pointless for the type of device they are selling.

 

That would unnecessarily increase dev time and cost, therefore meaning that they either need to sell more copies, or make the game more expensive. Either way, bad for us. That additional time could have been spent on making the game actually a better game, rather then compatibility testing and zeroing in the settings and performance for two versions.

The amount of time it takes to do that is 1 hour, or that's how long it would take me. All it is is a few changed ratios and a switch statement.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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AMD is starting to use 20nm node now. So their next R9 300 series is going to be 20nm.

 

Just an FYI, GPU chips and CPU/APU chips are still pretty different, in terms of process node. Just because they're able to produce 20nm GPU's does not necessarily mean they are ready to do process shrinks on their other products.

 

But, I suspect that they've worked out whatever kinks there were.

 

Also the R9 3xx being 20nm is still a rumour, even if it's a pretty credible/highly likely rumour.

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Uniformity isn't an advantage, it's a handicap.

I agree from my perspective but I have to play devil's advocate on this one.

You code a piece of software for one PS4, you coded for them all.

 

 

As long as console makers stay on x86, all they have to do is implement a check of the hardware to see which options/resolutions/framerates can be enabled. If they keep switching (Mips next?) then it's a problem.

 

Customers are like sheep. You have to REALLY screw up to alienate them. releasing a better version of a console 2 years later doesn't alienate anyone. They'll just upgrade as long as you provide an incentive ($250 credit on trade-in for instance).

The target market has 0 tolerance for what you are proposing. They have been groomed for decades on what to expect from consoles. It's not about how dev studios could change things around, it's about the target market refusing the changes. How many consoles are purchased as presents for sons/daughters, grandchildren, nieces/nephews as opposed to purchases where the buyer buys it for himself? You really think trade ins are a solution for a commodity sold in the millions?

Do you really think that a 10 yr old could simply come up with the money to upgrade consoles? You think trade in credits are a practical solution for what you are proposing here?

This is LTT. One cannot force "style over substance" values & agenda on people that actually aren't afraid to pop the lid off their electronic devices, which happens to be the most common denominator of this community. Rather than take shots at this community in every post, why not seek out like-minded individuals elsewhere?

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The amount of time it takes to do that is 1 hour, or that's how long it would take me. All it is is a few changed ratios and a switch statement.

An hour to make the code, maybe. But I highly suspect it will take more than an hour (a lot more) for them to dial in the graphics, optimize, and squeeze out the proper potential new performance.

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I agree from my perspective but I have to play devil's advocate on this one.

You code a piece of software for one PS4, you coded for them all.

 

 

The target market has 0 tolerance for what you are proposing. They have been groomed for decades on what to expect from consoles. It's not about how dev studios could change things around, it's about the target market refusing the changes. How many consoles are purchased as presents for sons/daughters, grandchildren, nieces/nephews as opposed to purchases where the buyer buys it for himself? You really think trade ins are a solution for a commodity sold in the millions?

Do you really think that a 10 yr old could simply come up with the money to upgrade consoles? You think trade in credits are a practical solution for what you are proposing here?

Lol I wouldn't code for either console, I'd code for pc, because I don't want what I am doing (which in my mind, is creating a piece of art, which is what video games should be) to be held back by a uniform standard. I'd rather code for a minimum standard, and then be able to have the sky as the limit for the people who put their hard work and money into their systems.

 

I'd rather have my limit be MY hardware, instead of someone else deciding what my hardware should be or is capable of.

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This might be a first: A console redesign that makes the original version the shit version also when it comes to performance? Tell me how Console gaming is more simple and convenient at this point then?

 

Except if you actually bothered reading what was wrote and what we've explained, thats not what is happening at all.

 

A process shrink means better efficiency means less power draw which usually leads to a cooler operating system. So in that sense, yes; new versions will be "better". And barring any universal update to CPU clock speeds or GPU clock speeds, they will be otherwise similar in game related performance. 

 

Jesus, do people like you ENJOY posting FUD and then being corrected? 

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Kinda unfortunate how a newer rendition, or version, of an inferior platform still hasn't made any benefits to it's performance, leaving it in the same poor place it already was in, other than stated power and temperature improvements, which don't mean much to a consumer other than a very slightly reduced power bill and maybe a few Celsius off the mercury..

 

I still stand by the belief that big gaming companies shouldn't be at the helm of consoles and it should be left to technology/hardware manufacturers, if Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo want to do their console shit, then it can be just a computer build instead of all this proprietary bullshit that just makes everything more tedious and worse for the consumer.

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I agree from my perspective but I have to play devil's advocate on this one.

You code a piece of software for one PS4, you coded for them all.

 

 

The target market has 0 tolerance for what you are proposing. They have been groomed for decades on what to expect from consoles. It's not about how dev studios could change things around, it's about the target market refusing the changes. How many consoles are purchased as presents for sons/daughters, grandchildren, nieces/nephews as opposed to purchases where the buyer buys it for himself? You really think trade ins are a solution for a commodity sold in the millions?

Do you really think that a 10 yr old could simply come up with the money to upgrade consoles? You think trade in credits are a practical solution for what you are proposing here?

If they refuse changes they don't get consoles or games. Markets are just as controllable as computers themselves.

 

Yes, they are a practical solution. If motherboard makers can do it (and do), so can console makers.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Kinda unfortunate how a newer rendition, or version, of an inferior platform still hasn't made any benefits to it's performance, leaving it in the same poor place it already was in, other than stated power and temperature improvements, which don't mean much to a consumer other than a very slightly reduced power bill and maybe a few Celsius off the mercury..

 

I still stand by the belief that big gaming companies shouldn't be at the helm of consoles and it should be left to technology/hardware manufacturers, if Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo want to do their console shit, then it can be just a computer build instead of all this proprietary bullshit that just makes everything more tedious and worse for the consumer.

Releasing a revised edition of the console with improved performance would be a very very bad decision. Console gamers are pissed off enough when a game works better on the PS4, or on the PC - but at least in those cases it makes sense. Now you want to piss off current Console owners because anyone who buys the revised console gets better performance?

 

It just doesn't make sense. Consoles are NOT gaming PC's. Variable performance between versions is NOT a selling point with this kind of product.

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An hour to make the code, maybe. But I highly suspect it will take more than an hour (a lot more) for them to dial in the graphics, optimize, and squeeze out the proper potential new performance.

Not really. You know the specs ahead of time and you know the benchmarks. If you coded the game correctly the first time (changes are made in 1 part of the code instead of throughout the whole thing). Then it was already optimal. Compute block size can change, resolution can change, and ratios of sizes change. That's all that matters when it comes to graphics scaling from one architecture to another. If you have to rebuild all the threads, you did the wrong the first time. High performance computing and software development and management should be mandatory classes for any decent game developer. It's like making "proprietary" (wrong word but I'm tongue-tied) data names for basic types like ints and longs, and then passing the proprietary names down through the program. If it turns out you needed a double instead of the float the float you used throughout the whole program, it's much nicer to only need to change the data type prop_flt points to rather than change every instance of float manually (and maybe you actually want floats somewhere which are explicitly named. Now changing them all is more difficult. If you build software correctly the first time, expanding it is easy.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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So new AMD APUs soon?

Carrizo launches in February, but production was begun on the 28nm process, so there won't be a massive improvement beyond going to GCN 1.2, Excavator CPU cores, and rumored HBM onboard.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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If they refuse changes they don't get consoles or games. Markets are just as controllable as computers themselves.

 

Yes, they are a practical solution. If motherboard makers can do it (and do), so can console makers.

I disagree. More like market refuses changes and sticks with 1.0 versions of consoles and everyone that wants to make money complies with what the mass consumers want.

You want to keep arguing your position, fine. Call me when things change.

This is LTT. One cannot force "style over substance" values & agenda on people that actually aren't afraid to pop the lid off their electronic devices, which happens to be the most common denominator of this community. Rather than take shots at this community in every post, why not seek out like-minded individuals elsewhere?

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I disagree. More like market refuses changes and sticks with 1.0 versions of consoles and everyone that wants to make money complies with what the mass consumers want.

You want to keep arguing your position, fine. Call me when things change.

Eh, if Microsoft and Sony just stop supporting their old hardware and sell new stuff while also incentivizing the game debs to switch, the market doesn't have a choice. Sometimes free markets are stupid. The U.S. proves that all the time, but people can be controlled, and so they are.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Eh, if Microsoft and Sony just stop supporting their old hardware and sell new stuff while also incentivizing the game debs to switch, the market doesn't have a choice. Sometimes free markets are stupid. The U.S. proves that all the time, but people can be controlled, and so they are.

The thing is, what benefit does Microsoft or Sony have in doing that? It makes no sense from a business perspective. All they would do is alienate part of their own customer base for no good (to them) reason.

 

It actually makes infinitely more business sense for them to continue doing exactly what they are doing: Release revised consoles that have the same performance, yet reduced manufacturing cost, reduced power consumption, and reduced heat output.

 

You can be damn sure Microsoft and Sony both already have next-gen consoles in R&D right now. I imagine the console life cycle will be shorter this generation. We might see next-gen consoles in 4 or 5 years. But any performance revisions within the same gen make no sense.

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The thing is, what benefit does Microsoft or Sony have in doing that? It makes no sense from a business perspective. All they would do is alienate part of their own customer base for no good (to them) reason.

 

It actually makes infinitely more business sense for them to continue doing exactly what they are doing: Release revised consoles that have the same performance, yet reduced manufacturing cost, reduced power consumption, and reduced heat output.

 

You can be damn sure Microsoft and Sony both already have next-gen consoles in R&D right now. I imagine the console life cycle will be shorter this generation. We might see next-gen consoles in 4 or 5 years. But any performance revisions within the same gen make no sense.

Sure it does. They know not everyone will trade in. When the offer expires people will still be forced to buy the hardware, and both companies still get revenue from the re-licensing of old game versions and new ones. It's win-win-loss for Microsoft, debs, and consumers, but we need the industry pushed forward and to hell with the current peasants.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Sure it does. They know not everyone will trade in. When the offer expires people will still be forced to buy the hardware, and both companies still get revenue from the re-licensing of old game versions and new ones. It's win-win-loss for Microsoft, debs, and consumers, but we need the industry pushed forward and to hell with the current peasants.

The thing is, what guarantee do they have that of happening?

 

If Microsoft did this, I would most likely see people getting frustrated, and if anything, dropping XBox for a PS4, where they know their console will still play PS4 games in 3 years.

 

Furthermore, hardware sales are loss leaders for Microsoft anyway. They make money off games, not consoles. Making a mandatory revised hardware that will raise the bar will do nothing more then frustrate their customer base.

 

You're thinking like they're trying to sell to PC Gamers. We're not the right demographic for this. To Console Gamers, the console is an appliance, not a computer. They want it to "just work", otherwise they'd build a kickass gaming PC.

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Just an FYI, GPU chips and CPU/APU chips are still pretty different, in terms of process node. Just because they're able to produce 20nm GPU's does not necessarily mean they are ready to do process shrinks on their other products.

But, I suspect that they've worked out whatever kinks there were.

Also the R9 3xx being 20nm is still a rumour, even if it's a pretty credible/highly likely rumour.

Yea I know, I forgot to mention specifically that AMD is using (A rumor, like you said) on GPUs

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There won't be any performance changes at all because the games wouldn't run on older XboxOnes.

They always do die shrinks on the slimmer versions that's totally normal.

If they use faster memory that's a performance change. 

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If I bought anything and a new, better one came out I'd be mad at myself but any reasonable person would remember that's how technology works. It keeps getting better ;)

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