Tesla Runs Into Trouble Again

[Fred Castellum]

If they're going to block Tesla from selling to consumers directly without the middle-man, their excuse likely is that it'll hurt the state's economy because apparently a good chunk of the overall state revenue comes from automobile sales. This is a poor way of protecting state revenue, in my opinion. What they need to do is make the auto dealers stop pressuring consumers into buying something they may not need or cannot afford and giving crappy deals. You have to always walk into a dealership with your head high, and always force the salesman to give you want you want for the price you want if your credit is fine (credit is another issue entirely, but the fault lies with the consumer there, regardless).

So if they're going to block Tesla sales, they may as well block Amazon too. They're not doing it, and you wanna know why? The dealerships make so much damn money for themselves that they can lobby for something like blocking direct Tesla sales. This is as dumb as Comcast and Verizon wanting Netflix to "pay their dues" for such high traffic when the ISP's themselves refuse to do any infrastructure upgrading in areas that actually need it.

The problem isn't with Tesla's way of doing business.

Absolutely this ^

[patrickjp93]

Absolutely this ^

Motion seconded. This is why I hate republicans and will never vote for any establishment candidate. They're all about big money and standing in the way of competition. At least with democrats you get an attempt at proving products are safe and perform as advertised (regulation, even though they go overboard with it), not that they're much better with this half-baked socialized medicine. We should have kept the old system, enacted some tort reform, and offered a legitimate public option which would have forced insurance companies to compete across state lines.

[brownninja97]

Man its silly but fun to see Tesla break the rules, to stand up against the bullshit rules of the government

[Dojjan]

Poor U.S.! Can't make it's mind up wether ebil originates from govt or unions. :lol: Maybe just bunnch'em up already as both seem hellbent on tripping up every last bit of free, unadulterated, unregulated capitalism.

 

I remember one successfull american dude saying something about the stupidity of americans but I really can't remember the wording of it so I'll just say this:

 

1) Unions represent workers without economic nor political power, thus organizing them to protect their interests against their employers who would otherwise abuse, misuse and exploit their asses as best theyd see fit.

 

2) Governement is elected by the people through a democratic process called elections. Government is then meant to represent the people and organize society accordingly. Now, what happens when scurpoulous, corrupt people representing private vested interests gets their dirty little mits on the political machinery and tweak it to their advantage?

 

US of A happens.

[Fred Castellum]

Poor U.S.! Can't make it's mind up wether ebil originates from govt or unions. :lol: Maybe just bunnch'em up already as both seem hellbent on tripping up every last bit of free, unadulterated, unregulated capitalism.

I remember one successfull american dude saying something about the stupidity of americans but I really can't remember the wording of it so I'll just say this:

1) Unions represent workers without economic nor political power, thus organizing them to protect their interests against their employers who would otherwise abuse, misuse and exploit their asses as best theyd see fit.

2) Governement is elected by the people through a democratic process called elections. Government is then meant to represent the people and organize society accordingly. Now, what happens when scurpoulous, corrupt people representing private vested interests gets their dirty little mits on the political machinery and tweak it to their advantage?

US of A happens.

The lobbying by big corporations is the problem here.

People not educated on how the economy is being effected doesn't help either. The average man on the street would think raising the minimum wage is inherently a good thing because he doesn't understand how the economy works.

[TheBLOODYTOXIC]

is this tesla associated with nvidia's tesla cpu's(i think they are cpu's)?

 

I think the Owner of tesla motors and tesla gpu's is Nikola Tesla...(...)(...)(...)(...)

 

Enjoy the reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

[Trik'Stari]

If they're going to block Tesla from selling to consumers directly without the middle-man, their excuse likely is that it'll hurt the state's economy because apparently a good chunk of the overall state revenue comes from automobile sales. This is a poor way of protecting state revenue, in my opinion. What they need to do is make the auto dealers stop pressuring consumers into buying something they may not need or cannot afford and giving crappy deals. You have to always walk into a dealership with your head high, and always force the salesman to give you want you want for the price you want if your credit is fine (credit is another issue entirely, but the fault lies with the consumer there, regardless).

 

So if they're going to block Tesla sales, they may as well block Amazon too. They're not doing it, and you wanna know why? The dealerships make so much damn money for themselves that they can lobby for something like blocking direct Tesla sales. This is as dumb as Comcast and Verizon wanting Netflix to "pay their dues" for such high traffic when the ISP's themselves refuse to do any infrastructure upgrading in areas that actually need it.

 

The problem isn't with Tesla's way of doing business.

Fair enough. I just dislike the implication in the OP that this is a purely republican thing, because it's not. I agree that government should simply stay out of business and the way that business runs other than safety for workers etc.

I still think Tesla's way of doing business is a bit idiotic, but that's just my personal opinion of it.

The lobbying by big corporations is the problem here. People not educated on how the economy is being effected doesn't help either. The average man on the street would think raising the minimum wage is inherently a good thing because he doesn't understand how the economy works.

Agreed. except this is sort of reversed, I'd think of Tesla more as a big business (single corporation) against small franchise dealerships (many smaller businesses possibly)

[MoonSpot]

Political topic with social ramifications.  Not the best topic to get advise from the A-typically heavily introverted techno community on IMO.

 

My view is tesla would not have gotten the money to get ANY of his current projects off the ground without government financial assistance, and bitching about Tesla's requirement to have a dealership network now has more to do with share holders greed then anything else.  It is the law for everyone else and I don't see how a dealership network is a negative thing for tesla from any financial point of view.  Actually I only see it as dramatically increasing revenue for Tesla, so long as they're able to increase their production of units and spare parts to meet the stock requirements of satellite locations/dealerships.

[Fred Castellum]

The thing about nvidia and Tesla is the display in the car.

Fair enough. I just dislike the implication in the OP that this is a purely republican thing, because it's not. I agree that government should simply stay out of business and the way that business runs other than safety for workers etc.

I still think Tesla's way of doing business is a bit idiotic, but that's just my personal opinion of it.

Agreed. except this is sort of reversed, I'd think of Tesla more as a big business (single corporation) against small franchise dealerships (many smaller businesses possibly)

The middleman is completely unnecessary and only provides more fees for the consumer.

The dealerships actually work together in organized structures to fight Tesla so though they seem like small businesses they are actually a band of rats. I remember reading about dealership associations or some shit. Their stance is a load of shit to any smart economist. They want to deter auto sales that aren't done through them regardless of how small it is.

[Trik'Stari]

The thing about nvidia and Tesla is the display in the car.

The middleman is completely unnecessary and only provides more fees for the consumer.

The dealerships actually work together in organized structures to fight Tesla so though they seem like small businesses they are actually a band of rats. I remember reading about dealership associations or some shit. Their stance is a load of shit to any smart economist. They want to deter auto sales that aren't done through them regardless of how small it is.

So it's as I thought, a union screaming and whining that they aren't getting their cut. I do think dealerships have a purpose, but they shouldn't be colluding with each other.

 

 

Political topic with social ramifications.  Not the best topic to get advise from the A-typically heavily introverted techno community on IMO.

 

My view is tesla would not have gotten the money to get ANY of his current projects off the ground without government financial assistance, and bitching about Tesla's requirement to have a dealership network now has more to do with share holders greed then anything else.  It is the law for everyone else and I don't see how a dealership network is a negative thing for tesla from any financial point of view.  Actually I only see it as dramatically increasing revenue for Tesla, so long as they're able to increase their production of units and spare parts to meet the stock requirements of satellite locations/dealerships.

I can't help but agree with this as well.

[exyia]

Ok, let me lay this out for those that don't really understand:

 

**<--- this is someone with over 2 years of experience in the car business; a loaded 2 years, where I learned and got more experience than most do in their lifetime in the business

 

Dealerships exist as the middle man to provide a better experience to the consumer in both purchasing and owning the car.

 

Think about when your GPU dies - you have to deal with the manufacturer directly. You have ONE SINGLE RMA department handling the whole country - what do you know? they all suck. They're run by corporate, but since it's not a department that generates revenue, it's run at bottom end cost just to satisfy customers.

 

Would you tolerate that for a car? NO - because a car (in United States society) is practically a necessity for everyday life. If your car is down, you can't go to work, go to the store, etc etc

 

So you need someone in your area that is there for YOU - not for corporate.

 

---

 

DEALERSHIPS

 

Dealerships are FRANCHISES. Think Subway. Think McDonalds. Think Walmart.

 

Corporate doesn't directly control your local Subway or Walmart. Your local staff controls your local store - the local manager, the local servers, the local warehouse staff, etc. They represent a CHAIN of the corporate business. Subway provides the chain with food supplies and sets training guidelines on how their sandwiches are made/served - BUT the success/failure of the local chain is all on the local staff and how they run. Corporate (mostly) makes money off the franchise license - the rest is on the local chain.

 

For dealerships, it's very similar. Ever seen a dealership name change brands? Like "Joe's Ford" go to "Joe's Toyota"? Or Joe expanding to more brands? That's because Joe is the local business - and he bought a FRANCHISE.

 

As a dealership franchise, you buy your inventory from corporate - then it's up to you to sell. You're responsible for your own success/failure in the business. It's a very LOOSE relationship - Ford, Toyota, etc have nearly NO involvement in the dealership experience. They do not hire staff, they merely provide training material (both in sales and service). As long as corporate's guidelines (like proper training - ever heard the term "qualified Toyota technician" or such?) are met, then the franchise is valid to exist in their eyes - the rest is on the local dealership to handle. 

 

This allows LOCAL dealerships - who have a BETTER understanding of their LOCAL environment - to better provide (in both sales and service) for THEIR OWN MARKET. They do not have the SAFETY NET of a corporate budget - if they have bad sales/service, their business will fail on their own. They can not blame it on the manufacturer - they merely build the car. They can not just do the "bare minimum" and just ride the coat tails of Toyota/Ford/etc corporate's business to write their paycheck. 

 

---

 

So Tesla

 

Tesla cars are a new technology - and they are incredibly smart by taking this seriously. They don't want people to just buy them - they want people to have a COMPLETE understanding of what a Tesla is. How it should be used, maintained, etc etc. This is EXTREMELY important for a new technology to succeed and not be thrown aside as a "fad". They do not want people to just buy one, drive away, and expect it to work out 100% - otherwise you get the stupid reviews/feedback like you see on Amazon reviews - by people who have no clue what they're doing or what they should have expected.

 

This throws a wrench in the current system of how the car business works.

 

Politicians are trying to make this a political issue.

 

But does it really matter? NOTHING stops you from buying a car out of state - either going there yourself and driving it back, or buying long distance and shipping....whatever. Nothing stops you from doing so - and once you have bought and owned a car, then it's yours. Do you have to buy a Tesla through a dealership in state X but not in state Y? then just go to state Y and drive it back to state X. Is this usually a little more expensive in your own personal cost (and time?) - of course it is

 

But look at the price of a Tesla. Do you really think the target demographic for Tesla will care? Those that want a Tesla will get a Tesla - Tesla is not mainstream enough that people are "on the fence" about it.

 

This is not the first case of stupid politicians making a big deal about this - so why has Tesla not responded? they can either fight in courts about this ruling or setup their own franchise.

Do you think EITHER of them makes financial sense at this point in time? They are still a niche, growing brand and are still developing more models in their product line. Do you think opening a ton of dealerships, training staff to their acceptable level to educate consumers, all for maybe 10-20 consumers at most PER state is worth the investment of building a franchise network?

[Guest Kloaked]

Fair enough. I just dislike the implication in the OP that this is a purely republican thing, because it's not. I agree that government should simply stay out of business and the way that business runs other than safety for workers etc.

I still think Tesla's way of doing business is a bit idiotic, but that's just my personal opinion of it.

Agreed. except this is sort of reversed, I'd think of Tesla more as a big business (single corporation) against small franchise dealerships (many smaller businesses possibly)

 

You can't lean on one side of politics to solve the problems, either way. All of them are too busy banging their secretaries to care about the little people who actually make it possible for this country to be able to function on a daily basis. Being a Republican or Democrat today is ridiculous. Both of them, today, are more worried about opinion polls and their reelections rather than fixing shit.

 

Tesla's blockage here is a prime example.

[Fred Castellum]

Political topic with social ramifications. Not the best topic to get advise from the A-typically heavily introverted techno community on IMO.

My view is tesla would not have gotten the money to get ANY of his current projects off the ground without government financial assistance, and bitching about Tesla's requirement to have a dealership network now has more to do with share holders greed then anything else. It is the law for everyone else and I don't see how a dealership network is a negative thing for tesla from any financial point of view. Actually I only see it as dramatically increasing revenue for Tesla, so long as they're able to increase their production of units and spare parts to meet the stock requirements of satellite locations/dealerships.

Not completely accurate, I studied Tesla for quite a while being a shareholder.

Yes they did get a nice loan when all the auto companies got support. They however paid that loan back 9 years early. Nine friggan year earlier...

Tesla's company philosophy isn't to make as much profit as possible its to bring competitive electric vehicles to the market. They even made all their patents free in hopes of other car manufacturers using them to grow a electric vehicle market. Working with dealerships would cause more management and training problems than necessary. Tesla store fronts don't have car salesman they have Tesla product specialists, who focus on educating people on the technology more than just saying things to sell you the car, the trust between them and customers is a priority.

Selling and maintaining the vehicles themselves provides better consistent support and vehicle warranty can be covered far easier than if you were to go by a dealer. Dealership mechanics have never worked with a electric car lol training them would make support quality inconsistent. Elon Musk himself guarantees the value of the model S and offers to buy the vehicle back at how much you paid for it in a 10 year period if I remember correctly.

Elon the CEO is a engineer first businessman second and the journey Tesla has taken to get to where it is now is filled with hardships which is what makes it amazing.

[Trik'Stari]

You can't lean on one side of politics to solve the problems, either way. All of them are too busy banging their secretaries to care about the little people who actually make it possible for this country to be able to function on a daily basis. Being a Republican or Democrat today is ridiculous. Both of them, today, are more worried about opinion polls and their reelections rather than fixing shit.

 

Tesla's blockage here is a prime example.

[Fred Castellum]

@@exyia You typed up basically what I would have typed up if I was using a keyboard instead of a phone. Thanks for bringing your expertise to the thread.

[holytoledo]

lolbackseatcouchposting.

It was an excellent read nonetheless.

[TheGosuStandard]

It should be up to the customer to buy it from whoever, not government dictating whether these outdated practices should be given priority. 

[rashdanml]

I'm not surprised.

 

This happened a while back in California with the Ford EV1. Very affordable and excellent electric car, but didn't see much success due to the government giving more incentives to buy a Hummer than the EV1. 

[Norman_the_Owl]

America's laws are so irrevocably broken in it's entirety that it hurts

[xRAGExSounDxRIOTX]

Oh dear, it's looking more and more like Tucker. Electric cars need so little maintenance (until the batteries run flat) makes perfect sense to not have dealerships.

[ManWithBeard1990]

is this tesla associated with nvidia's tesla cpu's(i think they are cpu's)?

Of course not. Both just happen to be named after the same guy. The car for a better reason than the compute card (after all, Nikola Tesla did invent the induction motor that powers his wheeled namesake, among other things), but still.

Hehe, those are Dutch plates on the cars in the picture.

But this new law sounds retarded, are they afraid of a bit competition?

I thought Dutch plates were black on yellow. Did something change?

[Wauthar]

Of course not. Both just happen to be named after the same guy. The car for a better reason than the compute card (after all, Nikola Tesla did invent the induction motor that powers his wheeled namesake, among other things), but still.

I thought Dutch plates were black on yellow. Did something change?

Taxi's usually have black on blue plates, but I don't think these are taxi's

Don't know why these are blue, but the number/letter combo is Dutch.

[Admiral Fear]

Oh dear, it's looking more and more like Tucker. Electric cars need so little maintenance (until the batteries run flat) makes perfect sense to not have dealerships.

 

This is actually a very good point, dealerships make a lot of money on maintenance, so if Tesla were to go through dealerships, the dealerships would have an incentive to sell anything OTHER than a Tesla, as the other cars would need fixing. 

[Mooshi]

What’s good for General Motors dealers is good for America.

 

 

The same firm that was a royal embarrassment that took hard working tax payer money to bail them out? The same GM that doesn't have the fit and finish of their Euro rivals, that GM? The same company that has flimsy as hell rear ends on Corvettes that makes them look super cheap? Yeah, no thanks. General Motors way of doing things is *not* good for America in the slightest.

[Fred Castellum]

The same firm that was a royal embarrassment that took hard working tax payer money to bail them out? The same GM that doesn't have the fit and finish of their Euro rivals, that GM? The same company that has flimsy as hell rear ends on Corvettes that makes them look super cheap? Yeah, no thanks. General Motors way of doing things is *not* good for America in the slightest.

What a absurd comment. Whats good for general motors is good for America ? I can't see the member you quoted on the phone, but someone needs to read up on company history.

 

EDIT: ahh it was the article.