DSL connections to get Gigabit speeds

[Louis54000]

D: where do you live? I feel bad for you. Even in canada, i'm paying $60 for 60 down 10up.

I feel bad for you. I pay 40$ for Gigabit fiber (1000/200) + TV + Phone...

[Scheer]

50 meters away from the network? You would have to live in the servers.

 

They will likely run fiber to a "hub" near a group of houses, and then use the existing lines running to each house.

 

If you figure they spend a few days getting fiber to that "hub" or node, if they didn't use VDSL it would be another couple hours per house. If there are 50 houses that can go off one node they could either have a few weeks to cover 50 houses doing FTTH, or only a few days to cover the same 50 houses with FTTN.

 

Later they can always come back and slowly run fiber to everyone's houses when they are caught up.

[dalekphalm]

They will likely run fiber to a "hub" near a group of houses, and then use the existing lines running to each house.

 

If you figure they spend a few days getting fiber to that "hub" or node, if they didn't use VDSL it would be another couple hours per house. If there are 50 houses that can go off one node they could either have a few weeks to cover 50 houses doing FTTH, or only a few days to cover the same 50 houses with FTTN.

 

Later they can always come back and slowly run fiber to everyone's houses when they are caught up.

All true, but you need to consider distances that cables travel. 50m is quite literally half a block at best. If this was in a suburban neighbourhood, that would mean a radius of 4-6 houses, tops.

 

This type of solution makes much more sense for a high density residential apartment block. One node per building. Course not everyone in the building would be able to get those speeds either, since 50m might be 2 or 3 floors (out of potentially dozens of floors) tops, depending on how the cable travels.

[LukeTim]

According to Wikipedia, VDSL in fact stands for "Very high bandwidth DSL" and is just exactly what Fibre is.

[bcredeur97]

what about ping? WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT PING!

[Sammael]

I'm still far too far away from the phone company, over 15000 feet, so this is not a real option.  MORE FIBER NOW !!!!!

[mr moose]

what about ping? WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT PING!

 

 

But seriously, VDSL by the time it's implemented will be good for 300M or so and speeds upto 250Mb/s, and that would be real figures not test bench examples in perfect conditions.

So that would be over a half Km radius from each node.

[jollander]

As someone who has to pay $100 a month for 25Mbits from a cable company, this is good news

 

Woah... Add $20 to that and you can get 1000/100 (gigabit) over here.

[dalekphalm]

According to Wikipedia, VDSL in fact stands for "Very high bandwidth DSL" and is just exactly what Fibre is.

Uhm.... what?

 

You're correct about what VDSL stands for, but your comment:

 

... and is just exactly what Fibre is.

makes literally zero sense. Fibre is a cable transmission type, and is used in a multitude of different scenarios.

 

FTTH/FTTP (Fibre to the Home/Fibre to the Premises) is when you have a direct Fibre connection straight to your house or apartment. All the way from the ISP to you, uninterrupted.

 

FTTN (Fibre to the Node/Fibre to the Neighbourhood) is what this is talking about. It uses Fibre connections from the ISP to the local node, which services your immediate neighbourhood. From the node to your house, it uses Copper Pairs or Copper Coaxial (VDSL or DOCSIS 3.0, respectively).

 

This specific instance of VDSL, called g.fast, is a specialized high speed protocol designed to allow up to Gigabit speeds. However, you only see those speeds within 50m of the Node. After 50m, the speed drops exponentially, with around 600Mbps at 250m, and then after that, dropping down to your normal VDSL speeds. Normally VDSL can service a customer within 4-5km of the Node (Though closer is always better and faster).

 

Now the thing to keep in mind, is that is 4-5km as the cable lays. It's not a straight line. So in reality, you might only get 500m away physically from the node, yet have 4km of cabling in between.

 

So can you clarify what you meant?

[Scheer]

According to Wikipedia, VDSL in fact stands for "Very high bandwidth DSL" and is just exactly what Fibre is.

 

DSL is a transmission technology, Fiber is a kind of cable. Aside from that, DSL uses twisted copper pair cables, fiber is glass so tiny you can poke yourself like a needle with it. It hurts like hell, don't do it.

 

Twisted pair (Ignore the fact they aren't twisted, the picture is actually of Cat3, but it was a good looking example lol):

 

Fiber:

[elkenrod]

Don't be fooled, this isn't worthy of any sort of applause.

 

Lay some Fiber!

[Psykomantis00]

50 meters away from the network? You would have to live in the servers.

 

Literally, like next to a server. 

[DigitalHermit]

...

 

And it will cost a fortune...

 

"Fiber" is a marketing term here ffs...

[LukeTim]

DSL is a transmission technology, Fiber is a kind of cable. Aside from that, DSL uses twisted copper pair cables, fiber is glass so tiny you can poke yourself like a needle with it. It hurts like hell, don't do it.

 

Twisted pair (Ignore the fact they aren't twisted, the picture is actually of Cat3, but it was a good looking example lol):

 

Fiber:

 

I already understand all of this, but all I am saying is that on the Wikipedia page it tells me that VDSL is the transmission standard used for FTTC.

[Scheer]

I already understand all of this, but all I am saying is that on the Wikipedia page it tells me that VDSL is the transmission standard used for FTTC.

 

Yeah that is kinda goofy, I looked around and a lot of places are talking about fiber lines and coax being VDSL. Its very confusing to me as DSL means you use phone lines to get internet, it looks like they are just going to call anything that gives you internet DSL now and use it as a blanket to cover everything.

 

They try to make this stuff sound simple to the general consumer and it just makes it confusing to the people who actually care to know more about it haha.

[kburn]

Yeah that is kinda goofy, I looked around and a lot of places are talking about fiber lines and coax being VDSL. Its very confusing to me as DSL means you use phone lines to get internet, it looks like they are just going to call anything that gives you internet DSL now and use it as a blanket to cover everything.

 

They try to make this stuff sound simple to the general consumer and it just makes it confusing to the people who actually care to know more about it haha.

 

It's marketing.  They spent money to deploy fiber to the neighborhood and so to boost sales they label it a "fiber" service (incorrectly).  Wikipedia is correct.  The transmission type to your home is VDSL.  FTTC (Fiber to the curb) means they ran a fiber optic cable to a cabinet near your home, then a device takes the data from the fiber port and transmits it out the VDSL port to your home.  G.fast will do the same thing, but they'll need to extend the fiber a little deeper into areas to get sufficient coverage at higher rates. 

[dalekphalm]

I already understand all of this, but all I am saying is that on the Wikipedia page it tells me that VDSL is the transmission standard used for FTTC.

That's only partially correct.

 

FTTC (Also the same thing as FTTN) is achieved both through VDSL (DSL) or through DOCSIS 3.0 (Cable). DOCSIS 3.0 is still 100% FTTC/FTTN.

 

It's marketing.  They spent money to deploy fiber to the neighborhood and so to boost sales they label it a "fiber" service (incorrectly).  Wikipedia is correct.  The transmission type to your home is VDSL.  FTTC (Fiber to the curb) means they ran a fiber optic cable to a cabinet near your home, then a device takes the data from the fiber port and transmits it out the VDSL port to your home.  G.fast will do the same thing, but they'll need to extend the fiber a little deeper into areas to get sufficient coverage at higher rates. 

[LukeTim]

That's only partially correct.

 

FTTC (Also the same thing as FTTN) is achieved both through VDSL (DSL) or through DOCSIS 3.0 (Cable). DOCSIS 3.0 is still 100% FTTC/FTTN.

 

Yes, I know all of this. Perhaps it is a regional thing. Here we would make a clear distinction between "fibre (that is, VDSL fibre)" and "cable"

[dalekphalm]

Yes, I know all of this. Perhaps it is a regional thing. Here we would make a clear distinction between "fibre (that is, VDSL fibre)" and "cable"

Perhaps, but making that distinction by calling VDSL "fibre" and Cable just "Cable" is still technically incorrect. This is of course one of the big international problems - marketing has determined what words are being used, whether those words are correct or misleading (or flat out wrong).

 

Here in Canada, Rogers (the largest Cable provider in the Country) markets their high end DOCSIS 3.0 connections as "Fibre". Which, they have just as much right to do so as a VDSL provider does.

 

The biggest challenge of course is that the marketing is for "Average Joe", who doesn't know what VDSL or DOCSIS 3.0 is, but they hear "Fibre" and think "WOAH THAT MUST BE FAST!"

[Mojo-Jojo]

I don't understand how *DSL is still a thing. Coming from a country that's very small, it's hard for me to understand how some places can be so behind on critical infrastructure.

Everyone here has access to DOCSIS, and most places are getting upgraded to Fibre already.

[dalekphalm]

I don't understand how *DSL is still a thing. Coming from a country that's very small, it's hard for me to understand how some places can be so behind on critical infrastructure.

Everyone here has access to DOCSIS, and most places are getting upgraded to Fibre already.

Well one reason is because DSL - in the form of VDSL2 - can achieve similar speeds as DOCSIS 3.0, and generally has a higher upload to download Ratio. Furthermore, there are advantages with going DSL technology - such as a dedicated connection from you to the Node. With DOCSIS technology, the activities of your neighbours can start to directly affect your connection if the Node is almost maxed out, because of the shared nature of Coaxial Cable connections.

 

Assuming the ISP properly provisions the Node for the demand, then this won't happen... But at least here in North America - you simply cannot trust your ISP to properly provision.

[Mojo-Jojo]

Well one reason is because DSL - in the form of VDSL2 - can achieve similar speeds as DOCSIS 3.0, and generally has a higher upload to download Ratio. Furthermore, there are advantages with going DSL technology - such as a dedicated connection from you to the Node. With DOCSIS technology, the activities of your neighbours can start to directly affect your connection if the Node is almost maxed out, because of the shared nature of Coaxial Cable connections.

 

Assuming the ISP properly provisions the Node for the demand, then this won't happen... But at least here in North America - you simply cannot trust your ISP to properly provision.

I didn't know that! The reason is that every street (in my city at least) has a Fibre > Coax (HFC) housing, and they get serviced very regularly.

Hence I never had any trouble maxing out my connection, so I thought it was simply better.

 

I'd take my own photo, but it's dark right now. I've stolen one from Dutch wikipedia instead

Edited October 27, 2014 by JvHummel

[dalekphalm]

I didn't know that! The reason is that every street (in my city at least) has a Fibre > Coax (HFC) housing, and they get serviced very regularly.

Hence I never had any trouble maxing out my connection, so I thought it was simply better.

 

I'd take my own photo, but it's dark right now. I've stolen one from Dutch wikipedia instead

 

No problem! Your ISP is simply doing it's job. Funny how that's the exception, rather then the rule

[Scheer]

I don't understand how *DSL is still a thing. Coming from a country that's very small, it's hard for me to understand how some places can be so behind on critical infrastructure.

Everyone here has access to DOCSIS, and most places are getting upgraded to Fibre already.

 

Among other reasons, it is much easier to upgrade the infrastructure in small dense countries. My state is one of the reasons why the US is behind, compared to the Netherlands we have roughly 1/10th the population, but 5 times the land area, so it takes a lot more upgrading to get to fewer people.