(Controversial nuke incoming)

[Guest]

so i have been a member of the call of duty esports scene for a while and i often compete at LAN events etc. 

 

the turnouts are pretty solid however.

 

Call of duty has always been the noob esport of the lot, people think its not competitive and takes no skill.

why so much hate towards COD? 

would like to know some genuine reasons.

 

thanks

[connorpiper]

No AA on consoles. Each new COD seems to be a CTRL+C CTRL+V of the last.

People get way to competitive over it.

I get offended every time I get on line. 

[KingDaddyDaniel]

COD is a big name in the FPS industry. With such a huge fan base, the percentage of children/immature people are bound to stand out from the rest of the crowd (no matter how small of a group it is). No one likes immature people and COD has been associated with this immaturity.

[Shalashaska]

Because the PC ports are terrible as a rule, that's why,

 

Infinity Ward think it's cool to release FPS games without FOV adjust for example, and with p2p matchmaking.

 

The PC version of black ops 2 is actually pretty good, but still with the p2p matchmaking.

[Sauron]

-

 

Welcome to the forum! Please remember to follow your topics so you're notified when someone answers in my sig you can find links to the CoC and the forum's F.A.Q. check them out!

 

I can tell you why I personally dislike CoD:

1) it uses a modified id tech 3, a 1999 graphics engine (nothing to do with esports, but I wanted to get it off my chest)

2) you can only carry two guns

3) killstreaks grant free kills so comebacks are nigh imposible

4) the movement speed is extremely slow, doesn't allow the player to get to safety if caught by surprise. The jump height is also laughable.

5) you die almost instantly, giving you no possibility to answer fire from behind or from an angle. Basically the guy who fires first gets the kill, always

6) regen health means camping is actually a valid strategy as you don't need to roam the map for resources

7) no ammo pickups; hence no need to move around

8) not everyone is on the same level at the start: those who have unlocked more powerful weapons start at an advantage

9) "quickscopes" actually activate an autoaim algorythm, meaning quickscopes are actually easier to pull off than actual aiming since the computer aims for you

10) the maps are badly designed

11) the fov is claustrophobic at best, making surprise kills even easier

 

I hope this answered your question. Getting to the top of course is hard and takes at least some dedication like everything else, but above a certain level the random element levels the field so much that it's hard to determine wether someone won out of skill or simply was lucky enough to catch the other guy by surprise more often than the opposite.

[twoscoops]

I don't think it takes much skill compared to many other games.

 

Also it's usually imbalanced, boring game modes, bad maps, bad progression. In fact, why is it even an e sports game?

[Guest]

COD is a big name in the FPS industry. With such a huge fan base, the percentage of children/immature people are bound to stand out from the rest of the crowd (no matter how small of a group it is). No one likes immature people and COD has been associated with this immaturity.

have you played LoL? 

[Guest]

Welcome to the forum! Please remember to follow your topics so you're notified when someone answers in my sig you can find links to the CoC and the forum's F.A.Q. check them out!

 

I can tell you why I personally dislike CoD:

1) it uses a modified id tech 3, a 1999 graphics engine (nothing to do with esports, but I wanted to get it off my chest)

2) you can only carry two guns

3) killstreaks grant free kills so comebacks are nigh imposible

4) the movement speed is extremely slow, doesn't allow the player to get to safety if caught by surprise. The jump height is also laughable.

5) you die almost instantly, giving you no possibility to answer fire from behind or from an angle. Basically the guy who fires first gets the kill, always

6) regen health means camping is actually a valid strategy as you don't need to roam the map for resources

7) no ammo pickups; hence no need to move around

8) not everyone is on the same level at the start: those who have unlocked more powerful weapons start at an advantage

9) "quickscopes" actually activate an autoaim algorythm, meaning quickscopes are actually easier to pull off than actual aiming since the computer aims for you

10) the maps are badly designed

11) the fov is claustrophobic at best, making surprise kills even easier

 

I hope this answered your question. Getting to the top of course is hard and takes at least some dedication like everything else, but above a certain level the random element levels the field so much that it's hard to determine wether someone won out of skill or simply was lucky enough to catch the other guy by surprise more often than the opposite.

some of those make sense but csgo is 2 guns too . esports do not use killstreaks. quickscoping is not in esports generally. 

[Guest]

I don't think it takes much skill compared to many other games.

 

Also it's usually imbalanced, boring game modes, bad maps, bad progression. In fact, why is it even an e sports game?

thats personal opinion obviously a large amount of people feel otherwhise. although with little skill you can be good at the game it takes a lot of skill to be the best.

[KingDaddyDaniel]

have you played LoL? 

Yeah, not enough to be 1337 though

[solarflare]

COD 1-2 and to some extent 4 were amazingly competitive and regarded highly in esports in their time. 

 

Then the problems started 

 

With the introduction of kill streaks in COD4 aka MW1 Activision just kept adding more turning what was a semi competitive game into a arcade shooter with free kills. 

 

To top that off they ditched mod support a large community of people who made mods such as competitive mod's for the Esport scene that brought competitive gaming in COD to a whole new level. 

 

Then they ditched Dedicated servers also and killed off being able to host competitive servers / run tournaments and matches let alone running practice's 

 

All that happened just after COD4 /MW1 blew up the scene and they had so many people playing it. and tourney sites were blowing at the seems with competitors 

 

This immediately killed off the PC sided esport scene for COD in basically 1 shot i mean you cant host competitions if you cant make servers or promo's or even turn off kill streak's.

 

and this went on for generation after generation and that's why you see people basically scoffing at COD games being competitive anymore.

 

because they are totally missing the core mechanics that make a competitive game and the missing ability for officials to tweak it to be more competitive is the nails in the coffin so to speak.  

 

CS was originally a mod for Halflife - it was altered until a point it was competitive and then built up around that point. 

CS-GO is essentially built as a competitive first game and thats why so many hold it up as the golden example in the FPS world. 

 

if COD wanted to get back that spot light they would need to add modding to the game - dedicated servers that community can alter -  and host tournaments with big prize pools in them to pull back competitors. 

 

the funny thing is their is still alot of competitors playing COD4 with promod or what ever it is now. 

 

And further alot of people who would jump at the chance to get back into a newly developed competitive first cod game.. but activision likely will never do that. 

 

DLC's ruin any chance of Activision giving control to a modding community. and Server rights ruins the other option of having mod capable dedicated servers controlled by the user from the ground up like in cod4. 

 

 

Kill streaks are gay but they are the least of COD's concerns as a esport game because that is something that can be turned off in at least most cod's ive seen.

[SeriouslyMikey]

Welcome to the forum! Please remember to follow your topics so you're notified when someone answers in my sig you can find links to the CoC and the forum's F.A.Q. check them out!

 

I can tell you why I personally dislike CoD:

1) it uses a modified id tech 3, a 1999 graphics engine (nothing to do with esports, but I wanted to get it off my chest)

2) you can only carry two guns

3) killstreaks grant free kills so comebacks are nigh imposible

4) the movement speed is extremely slow, doesn't allow the player to get to safety if caught by surprise. The jump height is also laughable.

5) you die almost instantly, giving you no possibility to answer fire from behind or from an angle. Basically the guy who fires first gets the kill, always

6) regen health means camping is actually a valid strategy as you don't need to roam the map for resources

7) no ammo pickups; hence no need to move around

8) not everyone is on the same level at the start: those who have unlocked more powerful weapons start at an advantage

9) "quickscopes" actually activate an autoaim algorythm, meaning quickscopes are actually easier to pull off than actual aiming since the computer aims for you

10) the maps are badly designed

11) the fov is claustrophobic at best, making surprise kills even easier

 

I hope this answered your question. Getting to the top of course is hard and takes at least some dedication like everything else, but above a certain level the random element levels the field so much that it's hard to determine wether someone won out of skill or simply was lucky enough to catch the other guy by surprise more often than the opposite.

 

Some of your points are rather poor. 7 and 5. No ammo pick ups doesn't stop it from being an E-sports game, just look at CS, it goes for 7 too. You can be killed instantly by one shot in CS before you have even turned around, or as soon as you peak a corner. However, the added ability of buying armour and a helmet to give you more of a chance to quickly spin around and survive. 

The rest I agree with. 

[Sauron]

some of those make sense but csgo is 2 guns too . esports do not use killstreaks. quickscoping is not in esports generally. 

 

Well, I never said I particularly liked cs:go ^^ but at least there's no health regen there. I don't really know the cod competitive scene, but even without kill streaks and uickscopes the other 9 points still stand...

 

 

Some of your points are rather poor. 7 and 5. No ammo pick ups doesn't stop it from being an E-sports game, just look at CS, it goes for 7 too. You can be killed instantly by one shot in CS before you have even turned around, or as soon as you peak a corner. However, the added ability of buying armour and a helmet to give you more of a chance to quickly spin around and survive. 

The rest I agree with. 

 

Well, that's what i PERSONALLY don't like about the game, your opinion may vary. For point 7, if you think about it camping can be a viable tactic in cs:go because you don't really NEED to move around to get stuff. Not so in something like quake for example, where if you stay still you loose period. 5 is also a weak point of cs:go imo.

[Trik'Stari]

I hate COD because it sucks. The SMG's are fucking retardedly accurate. The sniper rifles have retarded amounts of scope wobble. The players generally exploit anything they can to win,, rather than having actual skill. The engine overall is shit, your a highly trained operative, but you can only run for about 15 feet before you're out of breath, etc.

 

Get some balls, learn basic combat tactics, and get into battlefield. Which does have it's problems, but at least it looks better, and has way more people, and generally can be more fun. Not to mention vehicles and what not.

[Guest]

COD 1-2 and to some extent 4 were amazingly competitive and regarded highly in esports in their time. 

 

Then the problems started 

 

With the introduction of kill streaks in COD4 aka MW1 Activision just kept adding more turning what was a semi competitive game into a arcade shooter with free kills. 

 

To top that off they ditched mod support a large community of people who made mods such as competitive mod's for the Esport scene that brought competitive gaming in COD to a whole new level. 

 

Then they ditched Dedicated servers also and killed off being able to host competitive servers / run tournaments and matches let alone running practice's 

 

All that happened just after COD4 /MW1 blew up the scene and they had so many people playing it. and tourney sites were blowing at the seems with competitors 

 

This immediately killed off the PC sided esport scene for COD in basically 1 shot i mean you cant host competitions if you cant make servers or promo's or even turn off kill streak's.

 

and this went on for generation after generation and that's why you see people basically scoffing at COD games being competitive anymore.

 

because they are totally missing the core mechanics that make a competitive game and the missing ability for officials to tweak it to be more competitive is the nails in the coffin so to speak.  

 

CS was originally a mod for Halflife - it was altered until a point it was competitive and then built up around that point. 

CS-GO is essentially built as a competitive first game and thats why so many hold it up as the golden example in the FPS world. 

 

if COD wanted to get back that spot light they would need to add modding to the game - dedicated servers that community can alter -  and host tournaments with big prize pools in them to pull back competitors. 

 

the funny thing is their is still alot of competitors playing COD4 with promod or what ever it is now. 

 

And further alot of people who would jump at the chance to get back into a newly developed competitive first cod game.. but activision likely will never do that. 

 

DLC's ruin any chance of Activision giving control to a modding community. and Server rights ruins the other option of having mod capable dedicated servers controlled by the user from the ground up like in cod4. 

 

 

Kill streaks are gay but they are the least of COD's concerns as a esport game because that is something that can be turned off in at least most cod's ive seen.

yeh this makes the most sense. i guess the problem is its produced and aimed at the mainstream crowd and there has been no esports support, although it seems promising with sledgehammer. i think the first step would be to take the game to PC and get rid of the console limitations. 

[Guest]

Yeah, not enough to be 1337 though

fair enough. i have to say the league community in ranked is so fucking toxic. its like playing with 10 year old with anger issues

[VulsaviiK]

2) you can only carry two guns

 

I saw this and immediately thought to myself - Arena shooters

 

That's where there real skill lies IMHO

[KingDaddyDaniel]

fair enough. i have to say the league community in ranked is so fucking toxic. its like playing with 10 year old with anger issues

I always tried to ignore chat I knew general basics of where I need to go based on the champion I chose, but i only played to have fun

[KingKeith55]

To be honest, CS:S has the most realistic scope wobble.

 

The Scope wobble in COD is outrageous. In reality there is really barely any scope wobble on a sniper at all.

 

Then again, when do you see a sniper standing up scoped in?

[LarsReviews]

Call of duty?

[solarflare]

being realistic doesn't have anything to do with being competitive though. 

 

balance is more important than realism. 

 

and ability to remove inconsistencies as well as anything that isnt player controlled or directly imputed. 

 

So basically no auto killing things such as kill streak's 

 

make maps somewhat fair or winnable from either side. 

 

remove things that decrease competitiveness such as healing after being shot to avoid slopy game play and tanking of bullets. which rewards players for making shots rather than run and gunning. 

 

that in the end rewards people who can quickly make their shots and aquire targets. or setup good firezones or cordination. 

 

--------

 

a game like COD is fine as long as you can have alternative custom modes available to your competitive community but EA /Dice  - Activision in general and many other game makers are now doing the DLC thing which means they will not give mod abilitys to the users. its kind of sad that it all comes down to $ and it makes me sad that they basically killed off those pc competitive scenes which were so popular and loved by many players. 

 

we as pc games have imho truly lost something great in our communities when it comes to competitive gaming weather that be at a Esport lvl or a amature competitve level. 

 

I for one miss it. 

[DeViLzzz]

I have no hate for COD.  It seems every single time I play one of those games I enjoy it.  I should play them more often.

[Destroyer]

I have no hate for COD.  It seems every single time I play one of those games I enjoy it.  I should play them more often.

Agree no hate here either, just can't see it being a competitive game when I can top a lobby easily every game after weeks of not playing

[iTzPrime]

As a person who has lots of experience in e-sports (EPS in WC III, KR Amateur League in Starcraft II - until i moved to Austria to study) there are several reason why COD is no competitive title. Don't understand me wrong I think COD is a shooter that is really fun to play with some friends on LAN, but it isn't even a bit suitable as an e-sports title.

 

1) Kill Streaks: they give you free kills without any chance to counter it for the enemy

2) Maps: The Maps are often very one-sided when the players have similar skills

3) Ranks: When you start COD, but have a lot of experience in other shooters - you automaticly have a disadvantage because your enemies have stronger and better weapons than you

4) Balance: the weapons are extremly unbalanced. Sure in CS you will also find weapons that aren't used that often, but there isn't a weapon that is just plain overpowered (FMG GG)

5) Mods: The game is not modable -  you cannot change weapon values, maps or the game in a slight bit. Without Actionvision focusing on E-sports (why should they COD is the " casual" shooter) there won't be any balancing (turning Health Regen off)

6) Health Regen: with Health Regen camping will be a real possibilty. Sure you can also camp in CS, but if you do so your team will have to play in a 4vs5 and will loose a lot of pressure and kill potential

7) Auto-aim: Quickscopes auto-aim and so does some weapons like the Ak-47. The handling from this weapon is just to easy compared to the damage it is doing (CS Ak47 is actually quite difficult for newer players)

8) FoV: normally you should have a big enough FoV or at least an option do adjust it.

9) Strategy: The Reason why CS is pretty much the only really big shooter e-sports title is, because there is a lot of strategy involved. I just cannot see any gamemod that has a similar strategic complexitiy as CS. And without a lot of complexity the title is already more or less unsuitable for e-sports. Yes LoL also has a lot less complexity  than other top MoBas like Dota 2. However there are still a huge amount of champions, possible strategies and a decent balancing