Intel Preparing Broadwell Launch For CES January 2015, Skylake Launch To Follow

[Sakkura]

Last thing I wanted to share has to do with the misunderstanding of DDR4. DDR3 2133 and DDR4 2133 are 2 entirely different things. It may be higher latency numbers but it is roughly double the data transfer rate of DDR3 with lower volatge. To me that sounds good!

 

That's just not true. The bandwidth of DDR3-2133 and DDR4-2133 is the same.

[ZmanFTW]

That's just not true. The bandwidth of DDR3-2133 and DDR4-2133 is the same.

 

"The primary advantages of DDR4 as opposed to its predecessor, DDR3, include higher module density and lower voltage requirements, coupled with higher data rate transfer speeds. DDR4 operates at a voltage of 1.2V with frequency between 1600 and 3200 MHz, compared to frequency between 800 and 2133 MHz and voltage requirement of 1.5 or 1.65V of DDR3."-Wikipedia

 

Bandwidth is not the only consideration. The data transfer rate is approximately doubled. Happened the same way from DDR to DDR2 and DDR2 to DDR3.

 

http://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr3-to-ddr4

[ZmanFTW]

... Why? is having a bigger number really that important to you? Why not just get some LN2 going if the number on the overclock is all that matters to you? There is no benefit and possible a 1-2% performance loss going that route, assuming you don't end up with a crap chip.

 

Planning to lap an i7-2700k. 5GHz is my goal, don't want anything higher...for now!

[vm'N]

Have there actually been any official statement from AMD, that they are dropping CMT?

[Cookybiscuit]

Is it actually going to be faster or is it going to be Sandy Bridge 1.04 or 1.05 or whatever were on now?

[Techhog]

Planning to lap an i7-2700k. 5GHz is my goal, don't want anything higher...for now!

But there is literally 0 benefit to switching other than being able to say, "I have a 5GHz CPU!" Ivy Bridge is 5% faster clock-for-clock.

[patrickjp93]

Have there actually been any official statement from AMD, that they are dropping CMT?

Jim Keller's word.,

[Sakkura]

"The primary advantages of DDR4 as opposed to its predecessor, DDR3, include higher module density and lower voltage requirements, coupled with higher data rate transfer speeds. DDR4 operates at a voltage of 1.2V with frequency between 1600 and 3200 MHz, compared to frequency between 800 and 2133 MHz and voltage requirement of 1.5 or 1.65V of DDR3."-Wikipedia

 

Bandwidth is not the only consideration. The data transfer rate is approximately doubled. Happened the same way from DDR to DDR2 and DDR2 to DDR3.

 

http://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr3-to-ddr4

 

The data transfer rate scales higher, but at given clocks there is no difference in bandwidth. And the other performance consideration apart from bandwidth is latency - where DDR4 is currently slower than DDR3 at equivalent clocks.

 

As for the bandwidth, note that DDR4-2133 is also labelled PC4-17000. DDR3-2133 is labelled PC3-17000. The second number indicates the theoretical bandwidth in MB/s per module (so double it for dual channel configurations, quadruple for quad channel etc), rounded off. Please show me the big difference between 17000 and 17000...

 

Check the marketing BS on this Crucial DDR4 stick on Newegg.

 

 

Twice the Speed

Load applications faster and run demanding programs without lag. Crucial DDR4 memory debuts at 2133MTps – more than 30% faster than DDR3 memory technology.¹ Even better, as DDR4 technology matures, speeds are projected to hit 3200MTps – twice what was possible on standard DDR3 memory.

 

Twice the Bandwidth

Effortlessly multitask between apps, and empower your system to fire on all cylinders. Crucial DDR4 increases memory bandwidth by over 30%, allowing your system to handle more data at once. As DDR4 technology matures, bandwidths are expected to achieve up to 25.6GBps – twice that of standard DDR3. To maximize bandwidth, Crucial DDR4 memory is optimized for next-gen platforms that support four channel memory.

 

GG, that little ¹ indicates that they are comparing with "standard DDR3", ie. DDR3-1600. Yeah, DDR4-2133 is about 33% faster than DDR3-1600! Amazing!

 

Now I'm clearly just making crazy assumptions here, but maybe DDR4-2133 being "more than 30% faster" than DDR3-1600 has something to do with the fact that 2133 is about 33% higher than 1600...

[vm'N]

Jim Keller's word.,

And where can I find his official statement regarding this?

All I have seen currently is an assumptions.

[ZmanFTW]

But there is literally 0 benefit to switching other than being able to say, "I have a 5GHz CPU!" Ivy Bridge is 5% faster clock-for-clock.

 

I did not know that. Is Haswell 1150 faster than Ivy clock for clock? What is the fastest mainstream i7 I can get without losing performance? I never pretend to know everything even though I am a 43 year old IT and would really appreciate some links from wherever you learned this info.

[Jerakl]

I think I'm going to pick up a Skylake SKU.

[Techhog]

I did not know that. Is Haswell 1150 faster than Ivy clock for clock? What is the fastest mainstream i7 I can get without losing performance? I never pretend to know everything even though I am a 43 year old IT and would really appreciate some links from wherever you learned this info.

Haswell is 5-10% faster than Ivy Bridge clock-for-clock, though it should be noted that, realistically, there are only a few cases where the clock-for-clock boosts actually come into play. However, the cases where there isn't a difference typically aren't hugely CPU-bound in the first place. What are you doing your PC? Also, this may help to give you an idea: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Haswell-Review-Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Performance-and-Architecture/Clock-Clock-Sandy

[ZmanFTW]

-.- wanna do the math?

Lets do it then

-DDR memory has a bus width of 64 bits

 

DDR4 2133 MHz

64*2133333333=136533333312 Bits/second (17066 MB/s)

DDR3 2133 MHz

64*2133333333=136533333312 Bits/second (17066 MB/s)

 

So according to you 17066 > 17066?

 

DDR4 difference against DDR3 is only low power and higher standard frequencies

 

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/file/media/DDR4_Brochure_July2014.pdf

[ZmanFTW]

Haswell is 5-10% faster than Ivy Bridge clock-for-clock, though it should be noted that, realistically, there are only a few cases where the clock-for-clock boosts actually come into play. However, the cases where there isn't a difference typically aren't hugely CPU-bound in the first place. What are you doing your PC? Also, this may help to give you an idea: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Haswell-Review-Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Performance-and-Architecture/Clock-Clock-Sandy

 

Thanks for link. I do everything on my PC.

[vm'N]

I did not know that. Is Haswell 1150 faster than Ivy clock for clock? What is the fastest mainstream i7 I can get without losing performance? I never pretend to know everything even though I am a 43 year old IT and would really appreciate some links from wherever you learned this info.

Haswell is one of Intels newer architectures. It is the successor to ivy bridge.

Currently haswell offers the most performance for the mainstream platform.

To learn more about processors, you would need to get a basic understanding of how a CPU actually receive and process data.

This video is a good start:

After then, I would recommend picking a architecture you would like to start with. For starters, you should pick a older architecture, because they are not as advanced as the architectures today.

Pick a architecture, then go through every stage of the pipeline.

You will find that the CPU is based on a lot of components, like branch predictor, fetch/queue, decoder, execute and load/store.

Sites like anandtech, semiaccurate and so on brings excellent articles about CPU architecture, components, technologies and so on.

[patrickjp93]

And where can I find his official statement regarding this?

All I have seen currently is an assumptions.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20140510165441_AMD_to_Introduce_New_High_Performance_Micro_Architecture_in_2015_Report.html

 

Sorry I was on the road all day, but here it is.

[CatCloud]

Sky lake will support DDR3 and DDR4 for mainstream PCs. It is also projected to have 30% better perf per watt. Its all on wikipedia, check it out.

abit of a slow reply but one platform can't support both it's either A or B. I think broadwell will be the consumer mid range stuff with ddr3 while skylake will be the beefcake with ddr4. Time will tell.

[patrickjp93]

abit of a slow reply but one platform can't support both it's either A or B. I think broadwell will be the consumer mid range stuff with ddr3 while skylake will be the beefcake with ddr4. Time will tell.

Yes it can. Look up Intel's Unified-Dimm adapter.

[CatCloud]

Yes it can. Look up Intel's Unified-Dimm adapter.

Adapter!? Oh geez...have those been tested yet?

[patrickjp93]

Adapter!? Oh geez...have those been tested yet?

Yes, they've been in the server world for months.

[Glenwing]

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/file/media/DDR4_Brochure_July2014.pdf

DDR3 2133 and DDR4 2133 are the same speed, the other guys are right. The memory frequencies such as 2133MHz are not the true memory clock speeds, they are the "effective memory clock" speeds, which means all the factors like DDR4's double speed are already accounted for. DDR4 2133 is really slow bottom-of-the-bucket memory that is so slow that even with DDR4's doubled data rate it falls behind high-grade DDR3 such as DDR3 2400.

DDR4 may be "double the data rate of DDR3" but that only means when compared to equivalent grades of memory. DDR4 2133 is indeed double DDR3 1066, which is its equivalent; slow, bottom-of-the-bucket DDR3. But the fastest DDR3 is still faster than the slowest DDR4, just like the fastest DDR2 was still faster than the slowest DDR3.

[Mauri]

Does the 4.5 TDP put it on par with qualcomm SoCs? Or is it still less power efficient?

[vm'N]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20140510165441_AMD_to_Introduce_New_High_Performance_Micro_Architecture_in_2015_Report.html

 

Sorry I was on the road all day, but here it is.

Thanks.

I read through it, and it still seems to be an assumption.

Because there have been alot of rumours regarding zen having both CMT and SMT (like oracles newer architecture).

I mean something like this:

Based on the unofficial information

What is recognized for sure is that it will drop CMT in favour of some kind of SMT

It seems like a they assume AMD will drop CMT because they will adapt SMT.

[ZmanFTW]

Last thing I wanted to share has to do with the misunderstanding of DDR4. DDR3 2133 and DDR4 2133 are 2 entirely different things. It may be higher latency numbers but it is roughly double the data transfer rate of DDR3 with lower volatge. To me that sounds good!

 

I never said anything about bandwidth. I said that the data transfer rate is doubled. While many of the differences between DDR3 2133 and DDR4 2133 are minimal and the costs really not worth it right now, it is important to understand that they are not the same thing because they have one number that happens to be the same. There are differences. In the future DDR4 will be improved upon and prices will get lower making it worth the cost. DDR3 started off the same way.

 

Bandwidth = clock rate x transfer per clock cycle x bit transfer per clock cycle divided by 8.

[Sakkura]

I never said anything about bandwidth. I said that the data transfer rate is doubled. While many of the differences between DDR3 2133 and DDR4 2133 are minimal and the costs really not worth it right now, it is important to understand that they are not the same thing because they have one number that happens to be the same. There are differences. In the future DDR4 will be improved upon and prices will get lower making it worth the cost. DDR3 started off the same way.

 

Bandwidth = clock rate x transfer per clock cycle x bit transfer per clock cycle divided by 8.

 

Well 2133 IS the data transfer rate. So you're literally saying 2133 is twice as much as 2133. Besides, transfer rate and bandwidth are directly proportional, they're two sides of the same coin.

 

Apart from power consumption, DDR4 is no better than DDR3 at the same data transfer rate or clock frequency. It's currently actually worse because of higher latency.