First time buyer asking for help on complete Audio Setup.

[Shaqalac]

Hi LTT

 

TL;DR:

First time buyer, need audio setup for 49 square meters apartment.

Is the B&W 685 at good pair of speakers at 2,400 DKK/each ~ 410 USD/each for electronic music, rock/metal and movies?

What amplifier do I need, to accomodate my setup? (Hi-fi store recommended the NAD C356BEE)

What else do I need to complete the setup?

 

In a month or so I'll get my own apartment and it's about time I get a proper audio setup.

So far I've only owned a pair of Logitech desktop speakers and they don't really cut the mustard anymore.

I don't come and ask for your help and advice completely unprepared, I've done some research of what kind of design I like, a budget, a theory about my setup and some speaker I'd like your opinion on.

 

To be clear, I'm by no means an audio expert, which is the main reason I need your help.

My dad owns a couple of old B&W speakers, I think it's the predecessor to the current 683 model, here's some picture of them if it's of any interest.

I really like the design of the B&W speakers and their 685 have caught my attention.

 

So lets talk a little bit about my needs, what purpose the speakers will serve, budget and what I've already got.

 

Budget:

10,000 DKK ~ 1,700 USD

A couple of weeks ago I went to my local HIFI dealer to see the 685 in person and to get some advice on what I need for a complete setup. I think I'll use that proposal as a reference point in term of budget.

 

What will I use the speakers for?:

• Music
  
• Movies
  

Again I'm no audio expert, so I really don't know what to look and listen for specifically to know whether these speakers are good for a certain genre of music.

My music taste is very wide and diverse, so I'm just going to list some of it here.

 

Electronic:

• Hardstyle
  
• Hardcore
  
• Trance
  
• Progressive
  
• Drum and bass
  

Rock/Metal:

• Rammstein
  
• Volbeat
  
• All That Remains
  
• Sienna Skies
  

Other:

• Ellie Goulding
  
• Eminem
  
• Yelawolf
  
• The Beach Boys
  

As you can see there's a bit of everything and I don't expect to get a pair of speakers that'll play every genre beautifully.

I will talk a bit more about this below, in the "my theoretical setup" section.

 

What I've already got:

This is to give you an idea of what equipment I've already got, some of it might be completely irrelevant and some of it might not.

• Desktop PC running Win7.
  
• Media Server running Debian 7.4
  
• Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm
  
• Panasonic Plasma TV TX-P42G20E
  
• Raspberry Pi Model B 512MB rev 2
  

My theoretical setup:

This is an extension of the two previous sections.

The apartment is 49 square meters ~ 527 square feet and the living room is approximately 30 square meters.

I'm going to store all media on the server. Right now I have an Raspberry Pi connected to my TV, which acts media center. I might upgrade the Pi to something a bit more powerful in the future, like a proper HTPC.

I want to be able to connect the TV, my Desktop PC and play the music from the server over the network.

Besides from that I'd like to be able to connect smartphones or other devices that's uses a mini jack connector to the amplifier.

I don't really need a CD player as I'm leaning towards keeping everything digitally. I do however only own FLAC and high quality MP3 audio files.

When I'm paying this much for anything really, I don't only want the item to serve it's purpose well, I also want it to look good.

As already mentioned I love the looks of the B&W 685 and the amplifier my Hi-fi dealer has recommended me (NAD C356BEE) has a gorgeous black brushed aluminium finish to it. To me there's no better finish to a product than that.

 

I think that was it. So to sum up, I need your help to assemble a complete audio setup.

 

Please let me know if I missed something and in advance, thank you so much for reading this!

 

Cheers Shaqalac.

[thekeemo]

Tdlr the op wants a sound system that will play music from any of his devices anywhere as well as connect things via a 3.5mm jack (correct me if wrong)

[Warpheus]

hi, i'm also moving into my first own apparment in about a month and i'm also looking forward to buy my first own stereo. the nad C 356BEE is nice if you want to connect 2 pairs of speakers to your amp or if you buy large powerful speakers. i think i might buy the nad C 326BEE. It has alle the functions i need. Preamp and poweramp can be seperated and it has a preout for a subwoofer. The C 326BEE is powerful enough for the B&W 685. Spend about 1/3 of your budget on the amp and 2/3 on speakers. You might also checkout the products of http://www.kef.com/html/de/index.html or  www.nubert.de.

 

I'm going to buy this combination:

 

http://www.nubert.de/nuline-34/p1112/?category=3

 

http://www.nad.de/produkte/c326bee.php

[Shaqalac]

Tdlr the op wants a sound system that will play music from any of his devices anywhere as well as connect things via a 3.5mm jack (correct me if wrong)

Tldr* ;-)

Yeah, I don't want to lock myself down to one specific device.

A front 3.5mm jack would be sweet. If it's on the back I'll consider it useless as I'll only use a 3.5mm jack for when I got friends over and they want to share a track.

 

hi, i'm also moving into my first own apparment in about a month and i'm also looking forward to buy my first own stereo. the nad C 356BEE is nice if you want to connect 2 pairs of speakers to your amp or if you buy large powerful speakers. i think i might buy the nad C 326BEE. It has alle the functions i need. Preamp and poweramp can be seperated and it has a preout for a subwoofer. The C 326BEE is powerful enough for the B&W 685. Spend about 1/3 of your budget on the amp and 2/3 on speakers. You might also checkout the products of http://www.kef.com/html/de/index.html or  www.nubert.de.

 

I'm going to buy this combination:

 

http://www.nubert.de/nuline-34/p1112/?category=3

 

http://www.nad.de/produkte/c326bee.php

I'm pretty sure I'll buy the speakers as new. I don't mind buying some second hand but I would require them to be as new.

The amplifier on the other hand, that one I'm pretty sure I'll find used. I've already looked at some secondhand C 356BEE and they come around 3500DKK ~ 600USD.

 

The Nubert nuLine 34 looks pretty neat in black or platin but it doesn't look like they're available here in Denmark.

[Warpheus]

 it doesn't look like they're available here in Denmark.

they ship to europe for 5% of the total cost but a maximum of 66 €/491DKK. this particular manufatcurer has no stores, just direct shipping.

[Shaqalac]

they ship to europe for 5% of the total cost but a maximum of 66 €/491DKK. this particular manufatcurer has no stores, just direct shipping.

I'm not quite sure I like the aesthetics of the nuLine 34.

They look good in white, I like the contrast between the white case and the black metal around the treble. However, it's not quite the look I'm going for.

On top of that, the total cost of two nuLine 34 will add up to 5500DKK ~ 736€ which is 700DKK more than a pair of B&W 685.

That's price difference needs to be justified, especially when I'm not completely sure about the looks of them.

[Warpheus]

Justifying the price premium is pretty tough since it all comes down to personal taste, and taste goes way beyond numbers. If you like the desing and sound of the B&W, then that's fine. How do you like these? http://www.kef.com/html/de/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Bookshelf/Q300/

[Shaqalac]

How do you like these? http://www.kef.com/html/de/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Bookshelf/Q300/

They don't look bad at all.

[Stagea]

 

Hi LTT

 

TL;DR:

First time buyer, need audio setup for 49 square meters apartment.

Is the B&W 685 at good pair of speakers at 2,400 DKK/each ~ 410 USD/each for electronic music, rock/metal and movies?

What amplifier do I need, to accomodate my setup? (Hi-fi store recommended the NAD C356BEE)

What else do I need to complete the setup?

 

In a month or so I'll get my own apartment and it's about time I get a proper audio setup.

So far I've only owned a pair of Logitech desktop speakers and they don't really cut the mustard anymore.

I don't come and ask for your help and advice completely unprepared, I've done some research of what kind of design I like, a budget, a theory about my setup and some speaker I'd like your opinion on.

 

To be clear, I'm by no means an audio expert, which is the main reason I need your help.

My dad owns a couple of old B&W speakers, I think it's the predecessor to the current 683 model, here's some picture of them if it's of any interest.

I really like the design of the B&W speakers and their 685 have caught my attention.

 

So lets talk a little bit about my needs, what purpose the speakers will serve, budget and what I've already got.

 

Budget:

10,000 DKK ~ 1,700 USD

A couple of weeks ago I went to my local HIFI dealer to see the 685 in person and to get some advice on what I need for a complete setup. I think I'll use that proposal as a reference point in term of budget.

 

What will I use the speakers for?:

• Music
• Movies

That sounds like a good plan. However, you may want to add a subwoofer as a pair of bookshelves honestly sound inadequate for many movies (especially action-filled ones).

 

I suggest looking at four options:

 

1. Stick with the 685, but get an AV receiver and a subwoofer - Of the three, this will be your best choice for movies, and will still be good for music. The reason is that the AVR will handle the LFE channel's dynamics properly. This would be quite easy to setup because of the built-in bass-management of AV receivers. 

 

2. Stick with the 685 and C356BEE, but get a DAC and a subwoofer - If placed and integrated properly, this would be your best choice for music. It should still be adequate for movies, but it will exhibit compressed dynamics (due to the LFE channel being lost or downmixed at -10dB) and may distort sooner (speaker and amp are running full range). It takes some configuring to blend the subwoofer cleanly with the natural rolloff of the main speakers.

 

3. Stick with the C356BEE, but get a DAC and floorstanding speakers - This will take up the least footprint and will be very good with music. Movie performance would likely be a notch behind number 2. This is the easiest to setup as there is no subwoofer to deal with (just place the towers where they would interact the least with the room, yet still have a good distance and relative angle from the listening position).

 

4. Stick with the 685 and C356BEE, but get an external multi-channel sound card, a subwoofer, and a software EQ - With compatible software you may be able to manage bass/LFE management. This will get you movie performance similar to number 1 and audio performance possibly close to number 2, but it will be more difficult to manage and tune.

[Shaqalac]

First of all, it looks like you actually put some time and effort into this answer, thanks for that!

 

Before I give my response to each option, I'll start off by mentioning, that whatever AVR or amplifier/DAC I end up buying, I'd like that it/they has/have some headroom for future expansion (more or bigger speakers).

 

That sounds like a good plan. However, you may want to add a subwoofer as a pair of bookshelves honestly sound inadequate for many movies (especially action-filled ones).

Yeah, don't know how active you're on the audio subreddits on reddit. I've made a post there however, and I got that same response, that I might want to add a subwoofer. I've looked at for some of B&W's subwoofers secondhand and some other brands as well.

 

1. Stick with the 685, but get an AV receiver and a subwoofer - Of the three, this will be your best choice for movies, and will still be good for music. The reason is that the AVR will handle the LFE channel's dynamics properly. This would be quite easy to setup because of the built-in bass-management of AV receivers. 

I've read you answer a couple of times and this option actually got me thinking about my setup once more.

I realised that from what I described I'll only have digital outputs and the NAD C356BEE only has analog ports.

As far as I can see I'll have the following items as output:

• Desktop PC
  • If I want to show something on the TV from the computer, i.e. youtube movie and I want the sound through the speakers as well.
• Laptop (MacBook Pro combo jack analog/optical with Toslink and AirPlay)
  • Same scenario as above.
• Raspberry Pi
  • HTPC (to begin with), will be permanently connected to the TV and speakers (via AVR)
• iOS Devices
  • AirPlay would be the easiest way, the only reason I'll use AirPlay is if I got friends over who wants to show something.

I'm not quite sure with how I want to manage and control the music yet. I'll keep that in a seperate topic as I want this one to focus on what audio equipment I should get.

 

Back to option #1.

I was actually not sure what AVR meant, so a google search revealed this.

This is what I had in my mind as I went looking for equipment.

Can you recommend any particular AVR?

I had a quick look at the Sony STR-DN1040 and it quickly got my attention with all the possibilities for expansion. A new DN1040 is 4,000 DKK ~ 680 USD but I've found a secondhand at 2,500 DKK ~ 425 USD.

You say the AVR will have built-in bass-management. Will that interfere with the controls on the subwoofer itself?

Also a lot of the music I listen to contains quite a lot of LFE.

 

2. Stick with the 685 and C356BEE, but get a DAC and a subwoofer - If placed and integrated properly, this would be your best choice for music. It should still be adequate for movies, but it will exhibit compressed dynamics (due to the LFE channel being lost or downmixed at -10dB) and may distort sooner (speaker and amp are running full range). It takes some configuring to blend the subwoofer cleanly with the natural rolloff of the main speakers.

What do you think about the C356BEE, is it good value, is it overkill for a pair of 685, if overkill does it has room for further expansion in the future (more or bigger speakers)?
Would you recommend anything else than the C356BEE?

Can you recommend any DAC in particular?

This sounds like a bit more advanced option to set up properly. I'm sure there'll be guides to help through this, should I end with this solution.

 

3. Stick with the C356BEE, but get a DAC and floorstanding speakers - This will take up the least footprint and will be very good with music. Movie performance would likely be a notch behind number 2. This is the easiest to setup as there is no subwoofer to deal with (just place the towers where they would interact the least with the room, yet still have a good distance and relative angle from the listening position).

As mentioned in the first post I'm moving into a small 49 m² apartment where 25-30 m² of those 49 m² is the living-room where the speakers will be placed.

Unfortunately I don't have any measurements of the apartment, but the room is between 5m x 5m and 5m x 6m I reckon.

I've been looking at some secondhand speakers and I've actually managed to find a pair of the last version/edition of the 683 in mint condition at 5500 DKK ~940 USD, which seems like a good price.

Again, due to the small room I'm afraid the 683 will get too big and vulgar.

 

It's tempting when you're able to get a pair of secondhand 683 at the price of a pair of new 685s. It got me thinking though, if you can get the 683 at that price now. I can't see why I shouldn't be able to buy, whatever the equivalent model is at that time, for the same price in 10 years or so? Keeping that in mind I like the idea of buying a pair of brand new speakers now, like the 685, and when I feel like I'm due for an upgrade I can always use the 685 as office speakers etc.

 

4. Stick with the 685 and C356BEE, but get an external multi-channel sound card, a subwoofer, and a software EQ - With compatible software you may be able to manage bass/LFE management. This will get you movie performance similar to number 1 and audio performance possibly close to number 2, but it will be more difficult to manage and tune.

I don't even think I'll consider this options.

In my mind this setup I'm about to buy and create should be a thing of beauty, that includes it should be easy to manage, at least once you've set it up.

This doesn't sound very much like that to be honest.

 

Once again, I really appreciate your response. It's been very helpful so far but it's raised even more questions.

 

Cheers Shaqalac.

[MayflowerElectronics]

I didn't read to much of this but before you get any crazy audio setup, how many people are going to be in a building? Your audio setup won't sound to good if people get pissed off at you and tell you to turn it off

[Stagea]

First of all, it looks like you actually put some time and effort into this answer, thanks for that!

 

Before I give my response to each option, I'll start off by mentioning, that whatever AVR or amplifier/DAC I end up buying, I'd like that it/they has/have some headroom for future expansion (more or bigger speakers).

 

Yeah, don't know how active you're on the audio subreddits on reddit. I've made a post there however, and I got that same response, that I might want to add a subwoofer. I've looked at for some of B&W's subwoofers secondhand and some other brands as well.

 

 

You're welcome, Shaqalac. Glad to be of help.

 

I do not visit Reddit, sorry. I'm more active in communities specializing in audio and automotive stuff.

 

If you're looking at expanding to a multi-channel setup, then definitely look at an AV Receiver. It'd be most useful for that.

 

 

Back to option #1.

I was actually not sure what AVR meant, so a google search revealed this.

This is what I had in my mind as I went looking for equipment.

Can you recommend any particular AVR?

I had a quick look at the Sony STR-DN1040 and it quickly got my attention with all the possibilities for expansion. A new DN1040 is 4,000 DKK ~ 680 USD but I've found a secondhand at 2,500 DKK ~ 425 USD.

You say the AVR will have built-in bass-management. Will that interfere with the controls on the subwoofer itself?

Also a lot of the music I listen to contains quite a lot of LFE.

 

 

For your intended use (multiple inputs with a mixture of analog and digital interconnects), an AV Receiver seems like the suitable solution. 

 

The built-in bass-management will help you integrate the speakers and the subwoofer better, and can reduce distortion. This is done by applying an active crossover for bass redirection (low frequencies will be steered away from your bookshelf speakers and will be directed to the subwoofer).

 

Music generally does not have LFE, unless you're purchasing certain forms of multichannel music. LFE is a separate channel in most movie tracks and some games that carry higher amplitude low frequency effects (hence the acronym LFE) like rumbles and explosions. What you probably mean is that your music has a lot of LF material (low frequencies).

 

 

 

What do you think about the C356BEE, is it good value, is it overkill for a pair of 685, if overkill does it has room for further expansion in the future (more or bigger speakers)?

Would you recommend anything else than the C356BEE?

Can you recommend any DAC in particular?

This sounds like a bit more advanced option to set up properly. I'm sure there'll be guides to help through this, should I end with this solution.

 

 

NAD makes great gear, in my opinion. The C356BEE may not be nearly as good as the C375BEE, but it still punches very well for its price.

 

That being said, your intended application may be better-served by an AV Receiver instead of an Integrated Stereo Amplifier + DAC combo. The latter is more suited for a 2-channel music setup.

 

 

 

In my mind this setup I'm about to buy and create should be a thing of beauty, that includes it should be easy to manage, at least once you've set it up.

This doesn't sound very much like that to be honest.

 

Once again, I really appreciate your response. It's been very helpful so far but it's raised even more questions.

 

Cheers Shaqalac.

 

 

With all the information that you've shared, I think Option 1 would be your best choice. Check out AV Receivers within your price range, and squeeze in the cost of a subwoofer. Outside of the mainstream brands (Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, Samsung, Harman Kardon, etc.), check out the notch-higher brands as well if you're buying used (Marantz, Cambridge Audio, NAD, Rotel, Anthem, Arcam, etc.). 

 

For mainstream receivers, it's hard to go wrong with Pioneer's Class D receivers (SC-1224 is an example). They can deliver quite some current and can drive demanding speakers with ease. If you don't intend on playing loud, there are good slimline AV Receivers as well (Pioneer VSX-S510, Marantz NR1605, Yamaha RX-S600, Cambridge Azur 551R, etc.) 

 

Best of luck with your new setup.

[Shaqalac]

I didn't read to much of this but before you get any crazy audio setup, how many people are going to be in a building? Your audio setup won't sound to good if people get pissed off at you and tell you to turn it off

It's an apartment in the capital city so people will be used to some level of noise but I don't think my neighbours would necessarily appreciate my taste of music and especially if I turn it all the way to 11.

I appreciate your concern though and on second thought I think it'll be a good idea to hold my breath on buying the subwoofer.

 

If you're looking at expanding to a multi-channel setup, then definitely look at an AV Receiver. It'd be most useful for that.

At this point I'm pretty much sure on buying the 685s.

But it would be nice to buy something powerful enough to power 2x 683 and a subwoofer in the future.

 

The built-in bass-management will help you integrate the speakers and the subwoofer better, and can reduce distortion. This is done by applying an active crossover for bass redirection (low frequencies will be steered away from your bookshelf speakers and will be directed to the subwoofer).

Is it something every AVR has or should I look for something in particular on the specs list?

 

Music generally does not have LFE, unless you're purchasing certain forms of multichannel music. LFE is a separate channel in most movie tracks and some games that carry higher amplitude low frequency effects (hence the acronym LFE) like rumbles and explosions. What you probably mean is that your music has a lot of LF material (low frequencies).

My mistake, LF is exactly what I was referring to. As mentioned a couple of times, I'm completely new to this audio world.

 

With all the information that you've shared, I think Option 1 would be your best choice. Check out AV Receivers within your price range, and squeeze in the cost of a subwoofer. Outside of the mainstream brands (Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, Samsung, Harman Kardon, etc.), check out the notch-higher brands as well if you're buying used (Marantz, Cambridge Audio, NAD, Rotel, Anthem, Arcam, etc.). 

 

For mainstream receivers, it's hard to go wrong with Pioneer's Class D receivers (SC-1224 is an example). They can deliver quite some current and can drive demanding speakers with ease. If you don't intend on playing loud, there are good slimline AV Receivers as well (Pioneer VSX-S510, Marantz NR1605, Yamaha RX-S600, Cambridge Azur 551R, etc.) 

I completely agree that option #1 should like the most optimal for me.

 

I looked through the major Danish secondhand website and found some AVRs but that was purely through looks as I have no idea of what to look for.

To me it's just a big jungle of a lot of different brands and even more model numbers.

 

Could you mention some of the specs I should keep an eye out for?

Do you have any favourite AVRs you could recommend?

 

I'm not looking for a slimline AVR, even though I wont be able to play extremely loud but I want to be able to have to option.

[Stagea]

It's an apartment in the capital city so people will be used to some level of noise but I don't think my neighbours would necessarily appreciate my taste of music and especially if I turn it all the way to 11.

I appreciate your concern though and on second thought I think it'll be a good idea to hold my breath on buying the subwoofer.

 

At this point I'm pretty much sure on buying the 685s.

But it would be nice to buy something powerful enough to power 2x 683 and a subwoofer in the future.

 

Is it something every AVR has or should I look for something in particular on the specs list?

 

My mistake, LF is exactly what I was referring to. As mentioned a couple of times, I'm completely new to this audio world.

 

I completely agree that option #1 should like the most optimal for me.

 

I looked through the major Danish secondhand website and found some AVRs but that was purely through looks as I have no idea of what to look for.

To me it's just a big jungle of a lot of different brands and even more model numbers.

 

Could you mention some of the specs I should keep an eye out for?

Do you have any favourite AVRs you could recommend?

 

I'm not looking for a slimline AVR, even though I wont be able to play extremely loud but I want to be able to have to option.

 

I suggest looking for an AVR that's certified for use with 4 ohm speakers if you're planning to go with 683s in the future. 683s need quite some current to sound good (especially if you plan to run them full range). The 686s, 685s and 684s do not need a burly amp to sound good.

 

As for features, bass management is standard in today's multi-channel AV receivers. Room correction features, input availability and amplifier capacity are the things that you should focus on.

 

How big is your listening area? What's the shape and do you have mostly soft or hard surfaces?

 

If you want a moderately-priced receiver that will drive 683s well (and to high volume levels), Pioneer's Class-D AV Receivers would be a good place to start.

http://www.amazon.de/Pioneer-SC-1224-K-AV-Receiver-Class-D-Endstufen-Internetradio/dp/B00LLKBKZ2

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00D8XP9MA

 

Pioneer's Class D AVRs do not exhibit much inter-modulation distortion, and have a lot of dynamic capacity. They have the best amp section in the price range. You have to go with much higher models from the competing brands (Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon or Harman) to match the amp section of the SC-1224/1223/1222. If you have good acoustics and have some freedom with speaker/sub placement, this is my first choice.

 

Denon's AVRs on the other hand have better room correction capability at each price point. They may have weaker amps (they will distort sooner and will exhibit IMD at high volume levels), but they can compensate for poor room acoustics better. The AVR-X3000 is a good starting point on the Denon side.

 

Yamaha's high end is good, but their mid-level and entry level AV Receivers are too weak on the amp side to drive 683s well. Onkyo used to make fairly strong amp sections at this price point, but their latest models no longer seem to have that.

 

Look around for a good subwoofer as well. If you can afford some space, bigger cabinets tend to be more efficient. Below are examples:

http://www.amazon.de/Klipsch-SW-115-Aktiv-Subwoofer-Watt-Max/dp/B00746SNLQ

http://www.amazon.de/SVS-PB1000-PB-1000-Esche-Schwarz/dp/B00APGK8JC

[Shaqalac]

I suggest looking for an AVR that's certified for use with 4 ohm speakers if you're planning to go with 683s in the future. 683s need quite some current to sound good (especially if you plan to run them full range). The 686s, 685s and 684s do not need a burly amp to sound good.

 

As for features, bass management is standard in today's multi-channel AV receivers. Room correction features, input availability and amplifier capacity are the things that you should focus on.

 

If you want a moderately-priced receiver that will drive 683s well (and to high volume levels), Pioneer's Class-D AV Receivers would be a good place to start.

http://www.amazon.de/Pioneer-SC-1224-K-AV-Receiver-Class-D-Endstufen-Internetradio/dp/B00LLKBKZ2

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00D8XP9MA

 

Pioneer's Class D AVRs do not exhibit much inter-modulation distortion, and have a lot of dynamic capacity. They have the best amp section in the price range. You have to go with much higher models from the competing brands (Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon or Harman) to match the amp section of the SC-1224/1223/1222. If you have good acoustics and have some freedom with speaker/sub placement, this is my first choice.

 

Denon's AVRs on the other hand have better room correction capability at each price point. They may have weaker amps (they will distort sooner and will exhibit IMD at high volume levels), but they can compensate for poor room acoustics better. The AVR-X3000 is a good starting point on the Denon side.

 

Yamaha's high end is good, but their mid-level and entry level AV Receivers are too weak on the amp side to drive 683s well. Onkyo used to make fairly strong amp sections at this price point, but their latest models no longer seem to have that.

 

Look around for a good subwoofer as well. If you can afford some space, bigger cabinets tend to be more efficient. Below are examples:

http://www.amazon.de/Klipsch-SW-115-Aktiv-Subwoofer-Watt-Max/dp/B00746SNLQ

http://www.amazon.de/SVS-PB1000-PB-1000-Esche-Schwarz/dp/B00APGK8JC

I've been thinking a lot about the two Pioneer AVRs you've linked and they look really good.

If I end up buying an AVR that'll be able to drive two 683s and a subwoofer I don't expect to replace it for a very long time. However, as it is right now, it's pretty uncertain whether something like 4K will catch on and maybe the standard will switch from HDMI to display port.

Therefore I'm actually considering to look for something that's just suitable for two 685s and a subwoofer. Sorry for the inconvenience but as a student 850 USD for the SC-1224-K is a lot of money.

 

If I just want something to drive the 685s and a subwoofer at full power/volume, is the slimline AVRs then what I should look for, like the Pioneer VSX-S510-K?

There's currently a discount of 22% on the Yamaha RX-V677 at 3500 DKK ~ 595 USD, is that one way overkill for the 685s?

I know it's hard to compare prices, but in general Denmark is more expensive in any ways than any other country.

 

I've also found a Pioneer VSX-1020-K at 2000 DKK ~ 340 USD and a Pioneer VSX-820-K at 1600 DKK ~ 270 USD. Both are secondhand so it should be possible to negotiate with seller to get at least 50 USD off of the price.

 

How big is your listening area? What's the shape and do you have mostly soft or hard surfaces?

If you'rem talking about the room the speakers will be place in, it looks pretty much like this.

As I haven't moved in yet, I'm not completely sure where the speakers will be placed. I think it's mostly hard surfaces, besides from a big bed where it says "bed" and a couch.

 

Cheers Shaqalac.

[Stagea]

 

 

If I just want something to drive the 685s and a subwoofer at full power/volume, is the slimline AVRs then what I should look for, like the Pioneer VSX-S510-K?

There's currently a discount of 22% on the Yamaha RX-V677 at 3500 DKK ~ 595 USD, is that one way overkill for the 685s?

I know it's hard to compare prices, but in general Denmark is more expensive in any ways than any other country.

 

I've also found a Pioneer VSX-1020-K at 2000 DKK ~ 340 USD and a Pioneer VSX-820-K at 1600 DKK ~ 270 USD. Both are secondhand so it should be possible to negotiate with seller to get at least 50 USD off of the price.

 

 

The VSX-S510 should be fine driving a pair of 685s (or even a 6.1 set); the amp inside has a fairly strong switch mode power supply.

 

The RX-V677, the VSX-1020 or the VSX-820 should not have a problem driving a pair of bookshelf speakers as well. It is when you ask them to drive multiple channels simultaneously that they start showing their limitations. The linear power supply rail collapses at higher playback levels with all channels driven, thereby resulting in distortion. From a feature set standpoint, these three will do better than the VSX-S510. From an amp capability standpoint, the VSX-S510 can drive more difficult loads.

 

Now that you've ruled out the 683s, any of your choices would do the job really. 

[Shaqalac]

I think I'll buy the following items considering all your replies.

• 2x B&W 685
• Pioneer VSX-S510-K

The reasons there isn't a subwoofer on the list, is because I have no idea of how tolerant my new neighbours are regarding noise. Depending on how tolerant they are I might add one in the future.

You say the VSX-S510-K lack behind the three others from a feature perspective but as far as I can see the VSX-S510-K got all the features I need.

• I'm able to connect up to five source through HDMI on the back (desktop PC, MacBook Pro, HTPC).
• One HDMI out for the TV.
• One optical in for MacBook Pro, or should this be occupied by the TV, to pass sound from the TV channels to the speakers?
• Expansion possibilities for subwoofer.
• Ethernet port, I'm guessing that's to support something like AirPlay, Spotify and so on.
• AirPlay for connectivity with iDevices.
• Supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, do I need more than that?
• 4K pass through

I just realised I think it misses some features that I might need. For one it doesn't look like it has 4K upscaling, which I guess I need if I want to watch 1080p content on a 4K TV. A second thing, if you look at the "main features" section of the specifications, it says:

Plays                   Via LAN/USB: MP3, WAV, AAC, WMA, FLAC, AIFF, Apple Lossless                        192 kHz/24-Bit Audio playback: WAV, FLAC, AIFF

I'm a Apple user, so I will have a library of Apple Lossless (ALAC), will I only be able to play them via. LAN/USB?

 

Cheers Shaqalac.

[Stagea]

I think I'll buy the following items considering all your replies.

• 2x B&W 685
• Pioneer VSX-S510-K

The reasons there isn't a subwoofer on the list, is because I have no idea of how tolerant my new neighbours are regarding noise. Depending on how tolerant they are I might add one in the future.

You say the VSX-S510-K lack behind the three others from a feature perspective but as far as I can see the VSX-S510-K got all the features I need.

• I'm able to connect up to five source through HDMI on the back (desktop PC, MacBook Pro, HTPC).
• One HDMI out for the TV.
• One optical in for MacBook Pro, or should this be occupied by the TV, to pass sound from the TV channels to the speakers?
• Expansion possibilities for subwoofer.
• Ethernet port, I'm guessing that's to support something like AirPlay, Spotify and so on.
• AirPlay for connectivity with iDevices.
• Supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, do I need more than that?
• 4K pass through

I just realised I think it misses some features that I might need. For one it doesn't look like it has 4K upscaling, which I guess I need if I want to watch 1080p content on a 4K TV. A second thing, if you look at the "main features" section of the specifications, it says:

Plays                   Via LAN/USB: MP3, WAV, AAC, WMA, FLAC, AIFF, Apple Lossless                        192 kHz/24-Bit Audio playback: WAV, FLAC, AIFF

I'm a Apple user, so I will have a library of Apple Lossless (ALAC), will I only be able to play them via. LAN/USB?

Cheers Shaqalac.

4K scaling is not an essential feature. Either your source or your display can handle the scaling anyway.

You can definitely use ALAC by letting your computer or player stream in PCM.

The only thing that might turn you off would be OSD availability. I'm not sure about this model, but prior models of this series require the use of a composite cable if OSD access is desired.

[Shaqalac]

4K scaling is not an essential feature. Either your source or your display can handle the scaling anyway.

So if my source can handle the scaling, then I'll just benefit from the AVR's 4K pass through and if the TV can handle the scaling the AVR is just passing 1080p content to the TV.

 

You can definitely use ALAC by letting your computer or player stream in PCM.

Is that difficult to configure?

 

The only thing that might turn you off would be OSD availability. I'm not sure about this model, but prior models of this series require the use of a composite cable if OSD access is desired.

Is that something you think is crucial and what cable would I need to access it?

[Stagea]

So if my source can handle the scaling, then I'll just benefit from the AVR's 4K pass through and if the TV can handle the scaling the AVR is just passing 1080p content to the TV.

Yes, all 4K TVs I've seen can handle scaling. This is usually preferred as you do not get limited by the bandwidth restrictions between the scaler and your display. You might get limited to 30Hz with 4K scaling through a device using an HDMI 1.4 connection, for example.

Is that difficult to configure?

No. HDMI allows your computer to detect what bitstreams are supported by the connected device. Your PC can decode the stream to PCM then pass it along.

Is that something you think is crucial and what cable would I need to access it?

I just checked and this is no longer a problem with the VSX-S510. OSD is available via HDMI for this model.

[Shaqalac]

Yes, all 4K TVs I've seen can handle scaling. This is usually preferred as you do not get limited by the bandwidth restrictions between the scaler and your display. You might get limited to 30Hz with 4K scaling through a device using an HDMI 1.4 connection, for example.

Great, then that's settled.

 

I just checked and this is no longer a problem with the VSX-S510. OSD is available via HDMI for this model.

Cheers. For a second I was worried that I had to go look for another AVR.

 

No. HDMI allows your computer to detect what bitstreams are supported by the connected device. Your PC can decode the stream to PCM then pass it along.

I suppose this is done automatically?

If I it is, I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger on this buy.

 

Do you have preferences when it comes to cables or do you just go for the cheapest that your hi-fi dealer has in store? 

[Stagea]

I suppose this is done automatically?

If I it is, I'm pretty much ready to pull the trigger on this buy.

For most computers, yes. PCs and Macs will automatically choose to output in PCM in most cases. ALAC and FLAC are generally not supported by receivers outside of USB or network streaming playback. What they natively support over HDMI or SPDIF are usually Dolby and DTS formats, plus the less frequent support for AAC, DSD, SDDS and WMA. All other formats are decoded to PCM first before transmission.

Do you have preferences when it comes to cables or do you just go for the cheapest that your hi-fi dealer has in store?

For digital cables, just go with inexpensive and sturdy ones as long as your runs aren't that long. For analogue interconnects, some matching can help a bit (I know a lot of people would argue about this). In most cases, starting off with lamp cord isn't a bad way to begin. You can always change it if you so prefer. If the store has precut cables, check if you can test them with your gear to hear which one is best for you.

[Shaqalac]

I now think I'm 100% sure of what to buy.

 

@Stagea

Thank you so much for all your help and advices!

[Stagea]

I now think I'm 100% sure of what to buy.

 

@Stagea

Thank you so much for all your help and advices!

You're welcome and best of luck with your purchase.