Water to water cooling

[elvper]

I've been reading a lot about water cooling lately. My current PC is 5y old and ready to be replaced.

 

I'm the kind of person that when he does something he wants to do it about as good as freaking possible (without paying tons extra for a tiny bit extra performance).

So there's one question for which I wasn't able to find a reply to anywhere:

 

Water to water cooling! Apparently there is some "obvious" reason I seem to have missed for not using it, as there's absolutely nothing to find about it!

 

So what exactly am I thinking about?????

 

It's very simple: just have a watercooling loop as any but instead of putting fans on your radiator... Yes you can guess it... put the darn things underwater!

 

For example have a container with 100 L of water which isn't closed off. In that container you put your radiators.

-> better cooling of the liquid in the rads than with fans.

 

Now for the counter arguments I'm sure to be mentioned first:

 

1. Dude, that 100 L of water wouldn't do anything, after some time it would just reach the same temperature and blablablablabla.

My reply: evaporation, the hotter the water in the not closed off container gets, the faster it evaporates (and thus the stronger the cooling effect).

 

2. Evaporating water -> moisture problems.

My reply: a "chimney" to the exterior. Through which the saturated air can excape and cold fresh air can come in.

 

 

As many people here do not seem to know how evaporation works:

- Evaporation DOES cool down the air as it takes energy for the molecules to turn into gas. This is what creates the cooling effect.

- Humidity % depends on how hot the air is. Cold air can hold less watervapor than hot air. So even at 100 % air humidity the water would still evaporate as it heats the air (and like I said, hot air can hold more watervapor).

 

-> Based on how evaporation works, I could also put a heatsink at the top of the water to exchange some heat of the water into the air, after which the hotter air can hold more evaporated water.

-> In theory this sorta kinda gives "unlimited" cooling potential -> hotter water -> hotter air -> faster evaporation + air can hold more water = stronger and stronger cooling effects as heat rises till it reaches a balance.

-> Also the reason why I'm talking about a chimney, as 100 % humidity -> heating the air to add extra watervapor -> realeasing the air in the room -> air cools down again to roomtemperature -> can hold less watervapor again -> water condenses and creates moisture problems.

 

 

JUST TO BE CLEAR: THE CONTAINER ISN'T USED AS RESERVOIR, IT ISN'T PART OF THE LOOP, IT'S JUST TO PUT THE RADS IN TO COOL.

 

 

So is this a good idea??? Why is / isn't it?

[niofalpha]

I've been reading a lot about water cooling lately. My current PC is 5y old and ready to be replaced.

I'm the kind of person that when he does something he wants to do it about as good as freaking possible (without paying tons extra for a tiny bit extra performance).

So there's one question for which I wasn't able to find a reply to anywhere:

Water to water cooling! Apparently there is some "obvious" reason I seem to have missed for not using it, as there's absolutely nothing to find about it!

So what exactly am I thinking about?????

It's very simple: just have a watercooling loop as any but instead of putting fans on your radiator... Yes you can guess it... put the darn things underwater!

For example have a container with 100 L of water which isn't closed off. In that container you put your radiators.

-> better cooling of the liquid in the rads than with fans.

Now for the counter arguments I'm sure to be mentioned first:

1. Dude, that 100 L of water wouldn't do anything, after some time it would just reach the same temperature and blablablablabla.

My reply: evaporation, the hotter the water in the not closed off container gets, the faster it evaporates (and thus the stronger the cooling effect).

2. Evaporating water -> moisture problems.

My reply: a "chimney" to the exterior. Through which the saturated air can excape and cold fresh air can come in.

So is this a good idea??? Why is / isn't it?

So put the Radiator under water?

Or like a Mineral Oil PC?

[TheKDub]

Don't see why you would want to do this

 

Guess it could be a decent idea.

[elvper]

So put the Radiator under water?

Yes

So put the Radiator under water?

Or like a Mineral Oil PC?

Not like a minieral oil PC.

Only the radiators underwater to exchange the heat from inside the loop to the large container with water in it

[Jodomcfrodo]

Seems like a hassle for no gain. If the water is not chilled, your loop will only be as cool as room temperature. Also are you going to keep refilling the water? Seems like a lot of hassle for the same temps.

 

 

Also for overclocking, the heat in a custom loop isn't an issue fore 24/7 use. A loop will easily cool the highest voltage safe enough for constant use. 

[elvper]

Don't see why you would want to do this

Better cooling than with water to air as it normally is.

Seems like a hassle for no gain. If the water is not chilled, your loop will only be as cool as room temperature. Also are you going to keep refilling the water? Seems like a lot of hassle for the same temps.

Also for overclocking, the heat in a custom loop isn't an issue fore 24/7 use. A loop will easily cool the highest voltage safe enough for constant use.

Yes refilling the water isn't an issue.

Also I do not require it to be cooler than roomtemperature. Would just like to keep decent temps at a good overclock.

[niofalpha]

Not like a minieral oil PC.

 

Only the radiators underwater to exchange the heat from inside the loop to the large container with water in it

I don't see why you would want to do this... 

 

The fan's would have more resistance so they would spin slower, I doubt most case fans are meant for underwater use.

And there is no air to push through the rad's so they wouldn't work?

[W-L]

I've been reading a lot about water cooling lately. My current PC is 5y old and ready to be replaced.

 

I'm the kind of person that when he does something he wants to do it about as good as freaking possible (without paying tons extra for a tiny bit extra performance).

So there's one question for which I wasn't able to find a reply to anywhere:

 

Water to water cooling! Apparently there is some "obvious" reason I seem to have missed for not using it, as there's absolutely nothing to find about it!

 

So what exactly am I thinking about?????

 

It's very simple: just have a watercooling loop as any but instead of putting fans on your radiator... Yes you can guess it... put the darn things underwater!

 

For example have a container with 100 L of water which isn't closed off. In that container you put your radiators.

-> better cooling of the liquid in the rads than with fans.

 

Now for the counter arguments I'm sure to be mentioned first:

 

1. Dude, that 100 L of water wouldn't do anything, after some time it would just reach the same temperature and blablablablabla.

My reply: evaporation, the hotter the water in the not closed off container gets, the faster it evaporates (and thus the stronger the cooling effect).

 

2. Evaporating water -> moisture problems.

My reply: a "chimney" to the exterior. Through which the saturated air can excape and cold fresh air can come in.

 

JUST TO BE CLEAR: THE CONTAINER ISN'T USED AS RESERVOIR, IT ISN'T PART OF THE LOOP, IT'S JUST TO PUT THE RADS IN TO COOL.

 

 

So is this a good idea??? Why is / isn't it?

 

Just a side note evaporating water from the exterior water container will remove heat but at a very very slow process, also if you plan to evaporate that water your going to want to have some biocide or some to prevent algae growth and bacteria. It just seems a bit too much work for the little amount of gain it will result in.

[Jodomcfrodo]

Yes refilling the water isn't an issue.

Also I do not require it to be cooler than roomtemperature. Would just like to keep decent temps at a good overclock.

Then why not use a regular radiator? For your use, this has no advantage vs regular watercooling.

[elvper]

Seems like a hassle for no gain. If the water is not chilled, your loop will only be as cool as room temperature. Also are you going to keep refilling the water? Seems like a lot of hassle for the same temps.

Also for overclocking, the heat in a custom loop isn't an issue fore 24/7 use. A loop will easily cool the highest voltage safe enough for constant use.

But with water to water cooling it would be cooler than with water to air, correct?

As the rad will more easely be able to pass on it's warmth to water than to air. While if the water warms up, it will just evaporate which gives gives extra cooling again.

I don't see why you would want to do this...

The fan's would have more resistance so they would spin slower, I doubt most case fans are meant for underwater use.

And there is no air to push through the rad's so they wouldn't work?

No fans, the rads would still work, but give their heat to water, water conducts heat better than air, so heat will spread accross the water without fans.

[Jodomcfrodo]

But with water to water cooling it would be cooler than with water to air, correct?

As the rad will more easely be able to pass on it's warmth to water than to air. While if the water warms up, it will just evaporate which gives gives extra cooling again.

Yes, but the temps will be fine either way. The chip will hit the wall before it reaches the temp wall. Not worth the extra work so that is why no one does it. 

[Enderman]

That's basically watercooling a watercooling loop. It is possible, but you need to have constantly renewing water or some way to cool that water. The issue is that having a faucet open 24/7 wastes a shit ton of water, so the only possible solution is to use a lake or river beside your house to constantly renew the water. You can't just put a radiator in a bucket of water because the water will heat up, and not cool your radiator effectively.

[elvper]

Just a side note evaporating water from the exterior water container will remove heat but at a very very slow process, also if you plan to evaporate that water your going to want to have some biocide or some to prevent algae growth and bacteria. It just seems a bit too much work for the little amount of gain it will result in.

Well, as it will require quite often to be refilled. Old water left over would also be replaced by fresh water + maybe add a bit of somekind of biocide.

 

Evaporation increases as temperature increases, so the hotter stuff gets, the stronger the cooling effect.

[W-L]

But with water to water cooling it would be cooler than with water to air, correct?

As the rad will more easely be able to pass on it's warmth to water than to air. While if the water warms up, it will just evaporate which gives gives extra cooling again.

 

The issue is there is still the process of evaporation which is a water to air cooling so you are still limited to water to air, if you have an evaporator or something to remove water from the exterior container at a high rate it will aid to speeding it up the evaporation process it will only help marginally. It really won't make a big dent in cooling unfortunately. 

[elvper]

Yes, but the temps will be fine either way. The chip will hit the wall before it reaches the temp wall. Not worth the extra work so that is why no one does it.

Would also be quiet, as there's no fans.

That's basically watercooling a watercooling loop. It is possible, but you need to have constantly renewing water or some way to cool that water. The issue is that having a faucet open 24/7 wastes a shit ton of water, so the only possible solution is to use a lake or river beside your house to constantly renew the water. You can't just put a radiator in a bucket of water because the water will heat up, and not cool your radiator effectively.

yes the water would heat up but the hotter the water gets, the stronger the evaporation = the stronger the cooling effect.

[Jodomcfrodo]

Would also be quiet, as there's no fans.

You can get fans so quiet you can't hear them. The constant refilling and long tubing runs would be a hassle. How would you even get the tubing out of the case?

[Enderman]

yes the water would heat up but the hotter the water gets, the stronger the evaporation = the stronger the cooling effect.

No that's not how evaporation works. Evaporation =/= cooling. That just means the water got so hot it turned to steam. The rest of the water will still be at 80-90C until eventually the entire thing dries up. But your CPU would have probably shut down long before that ever happens.

[niofalpha]

yes the water would heat up but the hotter the water gets, the stronger the evaporation = the stronger the cooling effect.

So the water would stay in the cooling for multiple runs before being evaporated? 

 

Wouldn't that end up in hotter temps? 

[elvper]

No that's not how evaporation works. Evaporation =/= cooling. That just means the water got so hot it turned to steam. The rest of the water will still be at 80-90C until eventually the entire thing dries up. But your CPU would have probably shut down long before that ever happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

http://www.wired.com/2013/11/how-do-things-cool-with-evaporation/

[RushTfe32]

If you could only move the water, it will get cooler.

I was thinking about it today, curious. You don't even need a second engine to move water if you do it correctly

[elvper]

If you could only move the water, it will get cooler.

I was thinking about it today, curious. You don't even need a second engine to move water if you do it correctly

Water conducts heat way better than air, so you do not need to move it at all, it will spread through all of the water automatically. + hot water will go to the surface so there will actually be a little current.

[Enderman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

http://www.wired.com/2013/11/how-do-things-cool-with-evaporation/

It seems like you don't understand how it works. This uses water vapour to cool air below ambient temperature. You can't just put a bucket of water out and expect it to cool itself.

[elvper]

It seems like you don't understand how it works. This uses water vapour to cool air below ambient temperature. You can't just put a bucket of water out and expect it to cool itself.

Try the 2nd link

 

"You know water evaporates – that’s when it turns from a liquid to a gas. You probably also know that a hot pot of water will cool off in part because of evaporation. However, did you know that a cup of water at room temperature will also cool off? Yes, even if the water starts at room temperature it will cool off to below room temperature."

[W-L]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

 

Ok let's get this straight evaporation will allow for the cooling effect which is in relation to thermodynamics and will result in lower temperature but the rate at which you are planing to do this cooling is dependent to the rate of evaporation, just placing the rads in a exterior tank will evaporate water when warmed but will probably not be at a suitable rate for water cooling the computer since it is a very slow process. It will need some form of evaporator or way to heavily remove water and send it very dry air to be effective. Which also brings the problem or high humidity where if the exterior humidity is too high evaporation will not occur and overheating is a very real issue that can occur 

[Enderman]

Try the 2nd link

 

"You know water evaporates – that’s when it turns from a liquid to a gas. You probably also know that a hot pot of water will cool off in part because of evaporation. However, did you know that a cup of water at room temperature will also cool off? Yes, even if the water starts at room temperature it will cool off to below room temperature."

Unless you heat it up to 90C at which point you have a tank of hot water that will take several days to cool off, and will just keep getting hotter because the radiators in it heat it up faster than it can cool down.