Jump to content

Next-Gen PC games requiring too much Storage space?

Biggie

LoTR Shadow of Mordor: 40 gigs

AC Unity: 30 gigs

nba 2k15: 50 gigs

 

 

It's already bad enough that I may not off enough horse power (2x 780's) but now I may need an extra SSD just install these games. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, game file sizes are becoming very large. If you can sacrafice loading times then you'd be better off installing them on an hdd as mass storage. 

Case: Corsair 4000D Airflow; Motherboard: MSI ZZ490 Gaming Edge; CPU: i7 10700K @ 5.1GHz; Cooler: Noctua NHD15S Chromax; RAM: Corsair LPX DDR4 32GB 3200MHz; Graphics Card: Asus RTX 3080 TUF; Power: EVGA SuperNova 750G2; Storage: 2 x Seagate Barracuda 1TB; Crucial M500 240GB & MX100 512GB; Keyboard: Logitech G710+; Mouse: Logitech G502; Headphones / Amp: HiFiMan Sundara Mayflower Objective 2; Monitor: Asus VG27AQ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Installing games on an SSD is a waste of money IMHO, even a mechanical RAID can provide fast loading times at a much lower cost per GB.

 

Personally single spinner loading times are fine for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

LoTR Shadow of Mordor: 40 gigs

AC Unity: 30 gigs

nba 2k15: 50 gigs

 

 

It's already bad enough that I may not off enough horse power (2x 780's) but now I may need an extra SSD just install these games. 

You don't really need to install games on SSD's, just put them on HDD's which are dirt cheap.

Also you will DEFO have enough horsepower to run them games at ultra 60hz at most resolutions.

CPU: i7 3770k@ 4.6Ghz@ 1.23v - GPU: Palit GTX 660ti - MOBO: Asrock Extreme 4 - RAM: Corsair vengeance 8GB 1600Mhz - PSU: OCZ 650watt - STORAGE: 128Gb corsair force GT SSD/ 1TB seagate barracuda 7200rpm

                                                                                         COOLING: NH-U14s/ 3x Noiseblocker blacksilent pros/ Silverstone Air Penetrator/ 2 corsair AF120s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, game file sizes are becoming very large. If you can sacrafice loading times then you'd be better off installing them on an hdd as mass storage. 

This. That is why you have a hdd to store games.

My Rig :  Case: Cooler Master HAF X ,Motherboard: Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H,PSU: Seasonic SS-750KM3,Processor: Core I7 4770k (overclocked 4.7ghz),Cooler: Corsair H100i, GPU: EVGA GTX 780 with acx cooler, RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 16gb DDR3 1600 (overclocked to 2000mhz), HDDS  Samsung 840 EVO 250 gb SSD , Western digital  2tb 7200 rpm 64mb cache, Old 1tb laptop drive I had , 320gb for os backup daily, 80gb external for weekly backups,Drives 2x Lg Blu Ray burner WH16MS40,MISC: Tp-Link dual band wireless card, Logitech g510s, Razer Deathadder 2013, Acer G236HLBbd 23" monitor, Old tv I had 23" for secondary monitor, old 32" samsung tv third monitor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most games now want to use lossless audio codecs to increase sound quality as well as increase texture resolutions so that's why they take more space. Honestly games are still extremely fast for loading and saving on my WD Black. It's not as fast as an SSD but it isn't even a bother.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Games are advancing, graphics are advancing. Larger and more detailed levels take more space on your drive(unless you want all your levels to look the same and be full of the same crate).

 

Lots of games used 720p videos for cutscenes but now they are adding higher quality videos and they will be larger.

 

Some games have uncompressed audio(I think CoD did that) but that is a stupid thing to do since there is almost no noticeable difference and most people don't even have good enough audio equipment to tell the difference.

 

 

Games will be getting larger and larger and storage is getting cheaper and cheaper.

 

I would say that the bigger problem with large games is the internet. I don't have a problem with that but a lot of people do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like gta how you have 1 really long load then its fairly good for load times.

But i do agree for your few key games like 1 or 2 that you play all the time instal on a ssd but others thar you dont, or dont have long load times like cs go then instal them in a hdd

My Rig  

 
PCPartPicker part list: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/kGNksY

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($379.00 @ shopRBC) 

CPU Cooler: RAIJINTEK THEMIS 65.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($34.99 @ NCIX) 

Motherboard: MSI CSM-H87M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($78.83 @ DirectCanada) 

Memory: Kingston HyperX 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($139.99 @ Memory Express) 

Storage: Kingston Fury 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($71.34 @ DirectCanada) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($92.95 @ Vuugo) 

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card  ($298.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($125.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($66.99 @ NCIX) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)  ($116.00 @ shopRBC) 

Case Fan: Cougar Turbine 120 (4-Pack) 60.4 CFM 120mm  Fans  ($23.99 @ NCIX) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Keyboard: Logitech G710 Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($114.99 @ NCIX) 

Mouse: Razer DeathAdder 2013 Wired Optical Mouse  ($76.99 @ Amazon Canada) 

Headphones: Kingston HyperX Cloud Pro Headset  ($78.98 @ DirectCanada) 

Total: $2074.22

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when availableGenerated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-10 15:33 EDT-0400Build log http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/303263-the-dell-from-hell/#entry4121100 

Phone Compassion Spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EN6s426gyxqPloIqT4wQ7Y7yovkkQy_5B3djVN-N-R8/edit#gid=0


Gta V Pc Online Crew http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/344773-unofficial-linus-tech-tips-gta-v-crew-pc/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

can someone pls explain to me what a "next-gen game" is?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Games are advancing, graphics are advancing. Larger and more detailed levels take more space on your drive(unless you want all your levels to look the same and be full of the same crate).

 

Lots of games used 720p videos for cutscenes but now they are adding higher quality videos and they will be larger.

 

Some games have uncompressed audio(I think CoD did that) but that is a stupid thing to do since there is almost no noticeable difference and most people don't even have good enough audio equipment to tell the difference.

 

 

Games will be getting larger and larger and storage is getting cheaper and cheaper.

 

I would say that the bigger problem with large games is the internet. I don't have a problem with that but a lot of people do.

it was titanfall that had close to 36 gigs in audio.

Also for the long download times just put it on while you sleep and go to work, thats what i do

My Rig  

 
PCPartPicker part list: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/kGNksY

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($379.00 @ shopRBC) 

CPU Cooler: RAIJINTEK THEMIS 65.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($34.99 @ NCIX) 

Motherboard: MSI CSM-H87M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($78.83 @ DirectCanada) 

Memory: Kingston HyperX 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($139.99 @ Memory Express) 

Storage: Kingston Fury 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($71.34 @ DirectCanada) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($92.95 @ Vuugo) 

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card  ($298.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($125.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($66.99 @ NCIX) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)  ($116.00 @ shopRBC) 

Case Fan: Cougar Turbine 120 (4-Pack) 60.4 CFM 120mm  Fans  ($23.99 @ NCIX) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Keyboard: Logitech G710 Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($114.99 @ NCIX) 

Mouse: Razer DeathAdder 2013 Wired Optical Mouse  ($76.99 @ Amazon Canada) 

Headphones: Kingston HyperX Cloud Pro Headset  ($78.98 @ DirectCanada) 

Total: $2074.22

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when availableGenerated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-10 15:33 EDT-0400Build log http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/303263-the-dell-from-hell/#entry4121100 

Phone Compassion Spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EN6s426gyxqPloIqT4wQ7Y7yovkkQy_5B3djVN-N-R8/edit#gid=0


Gta V Pc Online Crew http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/344773-unofficial-linus-tech-tips-gta-v-crew-pc/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

can someone pls explain to me what a "next-gen game" is?

games that are coming to next gen consoles and newer games

My Rig  

 
PCPartPicker part list: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/kGNksY

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($379.00 @ shopRBC) 

CPU Cooler: RAIJINTEK THEMIS 65.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($34.99 @ NCIX) 

Motherboard: MSI CSM-H87M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($78.83 @ DirectCanada) 

Memory: Kingston HyperX 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($139.99 @ Memory Express) 

Storage: Kingston Fury 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($71.34 @ DirectCanada) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($92.95 @ Vuugo) 

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card  ($298.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($125.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($66.99 @ NCIX) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)  ($116.00 @ shopRBC) 

Case Fan: Cougar Turbine 120 (4-Pack) 60.4 CFM 120mm  Fans  ($23.99 @ NCIX) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Keyboard: Logitech G710 Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($114.99 @ NCIX) 

Mouse: Razer DeathAdder 2013 Wired Optical Mouse  ($76.99 @ Amazon Canada) 

Headphones: Kingston HyperX Cloud Pro Headset  ($78.98 @ DirectCanada) 

Total: $2074.22

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when availableGenerated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-10 15:33 EDT-0400Build log http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/303263-the-dell-from-hell/#entry4121100 

Phone Compassion Spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EN6s426gyxqPloIqT4wQ7Y7yovkkQy_5B3djVN-N-R8/edit#gid=0


Gta V Pc Online Crew http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/344773-unofficial-linus-tech-tips-gta-v-crew-pc/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

games that are coming to next gen consoles and newer games

but there is absolutely no info about the next generation consoles, ps4 and xbox one are pretty new

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

but there is absolutely no info about the next generation consoles, ps4 and xbox one are pretty new

yea the ps4 and xbone are "next gen" or were

My Rig  

 
PCPartPicker part list: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/kGNksY

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($379.00 @ shopRBC) 

CPU Cooler: RAIJINTEK THEMIS 65.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($34.99 @ NCIX) 

Motherboard: MSI CSM-H87M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($78.83 @ DirectCanada) 

Memory: Kingston HyperX 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($139.99 @ Memory Express) 

Storage: Kingston Fury 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($71.34 @ DirectCanada) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($92.95 @ Vuugo) 

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card  ($298.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($125.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($66.99 @ NCIX) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)  ($116.00 @ shopRBC) 

Case Fan: Cougar Turbine 120 (4-Pack) 60.4 CFM 120mm  Fans  ($23.99 @ NCIX) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Keyboard: Logitech G710 Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($114.99 @ NCIX) 

Mouse: Razer DeathAdder 2013 Wired Optical Mouse  ($76.99 @ Amazon Canada) 

Headphones: Kingston HyperX Cloud Pro Headset  ($78.98 @ DirectCanada) 

Total: $2074.22

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when availableGenerated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-10 15:33 EDT-0400Build log http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/303263-the-dell-from-hell/#entry4121100 

Phone Compassion Spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EN6s426gyxqPloIqT4wQ7Y7yovkkQy_5B3djVN-N-R8/edit#gid=0


Gta V Pc Online Crew http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/344773-unofficial-linus-tech-tips-gta-v-crew-pc/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

it was titanfall that had close to 36 gigs in audio.

Also for the long download times just put it on while you sleep and go to work, thats what i do

 

I know that this solves the problem of speed but a lot of American ISPs have ridiculous 100GB or even 50GB monthly limits. So downloading one or two games will cap your monthly internet usage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that this solves the problem of speed but a lot of American ISPs have ridiculous 100GB or even 50GB monthly limits. So downloading one or two games will cap your monthly internet usage.

im willing to have my slightly slower speeds than have a cap. Plus my nets bundled with my tv so yeah, may get a second line soon

My Rig  

 
PCPartPicker part list: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/kGNksY

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($379.00 @ shopRBC) 

CPU Cooler: RAIJINTEK THEMIS 65.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($34.99 @ NCIX) 

Motherboard: MSI CSM-H87M-G43 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($78.83 @ DirectCanada) 

Memory: Kingston HyperX 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($139.99 @ Memory Express) 

Storage: Kingston Fury 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($71.34 @ DirectCanada) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($92.95 @ Vuugo) 

Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card  ($298.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($125.98 @ Newegg Canada) 

Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($66.99 @ NCIX) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)  ($116.00 @ shopRBC) 

Case Fan: Cougar Turbine 120 (4-Pack) 60.4 CFM 120mm  Fans  ($23.99 @ NCIX) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Monitor: HP 22xi 60Hz 21.5" Monitor  ($187.11 @ Amazon Canada) 

Keyboard: Logitech G710 Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($114.99 @ NCIX) 

Mouse: Razer DeathAdder 2013 Wired Optical Mouse  ($76.99 @ Amazon Canada) 

Headphones: Kingston HyperX Cloud Pro Headset  ($78.98 @ DirectCanada) 

Total: $2074.22

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when availableGenerated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-10 15:33 EDT-0400Build log http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/303263-the-dell-from-hell/#entry4121100 

Phone Compassion Spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EN6s426gyxqPloIqT4wQ7Y7yovkkQy_5B3djVN-N-R8/edit#gid=0


Gta V Pc Online Crew http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/344773-unofficial-linus-tech-tips-gta-v-crew-pc/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

LoTR Shadow of Mordor: 40 gigs

AC Unity: 30 gigs

nba 2k15: 50 gigs

 

 

It's already bad enough that I may not off enough horse power (2x 780's) but now I may need an extra SSD just install these games. 

you don't need games on a damn SSD >.< You're wasting money that could've been put towards a 3rd 780 or upgrading to twin twin titan blacks if you are... Game sizes are actually quite small I remember years ago you'd have a 1GB HDD and some games could take 200-300MB which would be a 1/3rd of the largest available consumer HDD nowadays 100GB is the largest of games and the largest of HDDs is 6TB(soon to be 8 or 10TB) percentage wise games have shrunk

5820k4Ghz/16GB(4x4)DDR4/MSI X99 SLI+/Corsair H105/R9 Fury X/Corsair RM1000i/128GB SM951/512GB 850Evo/1+2TB Seagate Barracudas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

you don't need games on a damn SSD >.< You're wasting money that could've been put towards a 3rd 780 or upgrading to twin twin titan blacks if you are... Game sizes are actually quite small I remember years ago you'd have a 1GB HDD and some games could take 200-300MB which would be a 1/3rd of the largest available consumer HDD nowadays 100GB is the largest of games and the largest of HDDs is 6TB(soon to be 8 or 10TB) percentage wise games have shrunk

For some games where loading time determines chance to win, yes you need that game on ssd.

Anyone who has a sister hates the fact that his sister isn't Kasugano Sora.
Anyone who does not have a sister hates the fact that Kasugano Sora isn't his sister.
I'm not insulting anyone; I'm just being condescending. There is a difference, you see...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

For some games where loading time determines chance to win, yes you need that game on ssd.

That's stupid game design, I'm looking at you Battlefield 4.

AD2000x Review  Fitear To Go! 334 Review

Speakers - KEF LSX

Headphones - Sennheiser HD650, Kumitate Labs KL-Lakh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's stupid game design, I'm looking at you Battlefield 4.

It is stupid. (lol Locker rush C...)

But imo, the most time you spent loading the multiplayer game = the more time you wasted in life.

Anyone who has a sister hates the fact that his sister isn't Kasugano Sora.
Anyone who does not have a sister hates the fact that Kasugano Sora isn't his sister.
I'm not insulting anyone; I'm just being condescending. There is a difference, you see...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

For some games where loading time determines chance to win, yes you need that game on ssd.

Those games a decently far between and there's definately options like SSHDs Velicoraptors and such plus an HDD isn't exactly a disadvantage when they're standard most gamers don't have SSD only systems just don't buy a WD Green and you should be fine...

5820k4Ghz/16GB(4x4)DDR4/MSI X99 SLI+/Corsair H105/R9 Fury X/Corsair RM1000i/128GB SM951/512GB 850Evo/1+2TB Seagate Barracudas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's already bad enough that I may not off enough horse power (2x 780's)

how is that insufficient horsepower? What games are You struggling with?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Regardless of the fact, you shouldn't be putting single player games on your SSD. I do agree with you though, shit is getting out of hand.

i7 7700k @ 4.9ghz | Asus Maximus IX Hero | G.skill 32gb @ 3200 | Gtx 1080 classified | In win 909 | Samsung 960 pro 1tb | WD caviar blue 1tb x3 | Dell u3417w | Corsair H115i | Ducky premier dk9008p (mx reds) | Logitech g900 | Sennheiser hd 800s w/ hdvd 800 | Audioengine a5+ w/ s8

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

So Destiny is gunna be 40GB http://www.vg247.com/2014/09/01/destiny-requires-40gb-of-hdd-space-on-xbox-one/

 

The Xbox1 has a 500Gb HDD, and no doubt less than 480GB Usable from the get go, plus OS and stuff.

Whats left... 400GB-450GB maybe.. then 10 Games... if that.

They release a External drive... guess how big? 500GB, pretty pathetic IMO, should have been at LEAST 1TB-2TB in the enclosure.

/Rant over lol, rediculous HDD sizes in Consoles make me weep.

Maximums - Asus Z97-K /w i5 4690 Bclk @106.9Mhz * x39 = 4.17Ghz, 8GB of 2600Mhz DDR3,.. Gigabyte GTX970 G1-Gaming @ 1550Mhz

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I do put games on my SSD. I like the fast startup and load times. I only have a 256GB SSD but i have managed with it because i only keep about 3-4 big AAA games installed at any given time. That's more than enough because how many games do You really play simultaneously?The ones i am not currently playing i archive them to a separate HDD so i can easily install them on a whim without having to download again when needed.

Right now the big space hog for me on my SSD is Wolfenstein. About 45GB. I think it's because of the mega texture tech where every surface in the game is a unique texture. But 45GB is hard to stomach Although it's a great game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×