Valve taken to court by Australian consumer commission over Steam refund policy

[Antistatic12]

So Australians are getting shafted and absolutely ripped of on petrol prices and the ACCC goes after Valve instead.

Priorities....seriously.

[colonel_mortis]

This is actually a repost of http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/206036-valve-taken-to-court-by-australian-consumer-commission-over-steam-refund-policy/

EDIT: Threads have now been merged

[IdortMasterRace]

No but attention is attention.

 

Wait, fighting for people's rights is just wanting attention...? Stop posting.

 

People are so dumb, wow.

[skywake]

THis will be abused though. If you can simply return a game within 24 hours you could say play the entire CoD campaign and some multiplayer and then return it. Actually that sounds like a really good idea. It would be like and unofficial demo if you know what I mean and to be honest there are not enough demo's out there that are worth playing.

Well there is a sanity test built in. You can't return something because you didn't like it you can only return it if it was broken or not fit for purpose. So if you brought a game called "Hound Life 3" without your glasses and thought it was another title? Well you'd be entitled to a refund. If you brought something and it was buggy as hell? Yup, refund. If you brought a toaster and it didn't toast bread? Again. Or the all-too common example of buying some clothes only to take them home and have it not fit.

 

But yeah, refunds *are* abused. I know of people who have brought stuff from the hardware, used it and then taken it back for a refund because it "wasn't the right thing". The thing is though with a game on Steam they literally keep track of all sorts of things. If you brought a game from steam, played it for 10 hours and got the achievement for beating the game? Yeah, they'd know. They'd be well within their rights even with the very consumer friendly Australian Consumer law to tell you no.

[Trik'Stari]

By what logic to people have a "right" to demand a refund? You paid for it, deal with it like the rest of the world (to my knowledge). If I could get a refund on dayz standalone and watch dogs I would, but I can't so I just delete both and go on with my life.

[PopReference]

This is actually a repost of http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/206036-valve-taken-to-court-by-australian-consumer-commission-over-steam-refund-policy/

*Follows link*

[Trik'Stari]

Finally. Americans wouldn't understand this. Steam's non-return policy is actually an atrocity that needs being beaten down. And I'm all for the collective civilized world teaching the US about consumer rights.

Not really, you made the choice to buy it, if you didn't do your research that's no one's fault but yours.

 

Yay for the "civilized world" not getting the idea of personal responsibility.

[RelentlessAF]

Wait, fighting for people's rights is just wanting attention...? Stop posting.

 

People are so dumb, wow.

"Rights" their refund policy is out of whack so it's suddenly a push for human rights? Okay... by the way, putting people down is against CoC this is a forum of civil discussion calling people dumb is pathetic.

[Scionyde]

Maybe games shouldn't be able to be completed within 24 hours then?

 

Or, and I know this will be controversial among publishers: release games that aren't so bad that people want a fucking refund. How about that?

 

How many games do you know that have campaigns over 24 hours long? This especially applies to indie games which typically sell shorter and cheaper games. The last thing we need is to have more decent games padded for length with boring tedium like Assassin's Creed 2 or Mass Effect had.

 

Steam has a lot of indie games that puts it in a bit of a different situation than Origin. I'm certainly not against a refund policy, I just think there should be a restriction in place with regard to hours played so that indie devs don't get screwed. I mean, people can generally figure out a game is rubbish within a couple hours of playtime.

[SeriouslyMikey]

Hey, if we're going to jump into suing a company like Valve about customer service. The entirety of the UK should sue EA for releasing technically broken games. 

[Trik'Stari]

This will just hamper indie devs, great job Australia, your gonna hurt game development because you somewhere got the idea that a refund is a human right.

 

 

Hey, if we're going to jump into suing a company like Valve about customer service. The entirety of the world should sue EA for releasing technically broken games. 

Fixed that for ya lol

[Fetzie]

How many games do you know that have campaigns over 24 hours long? This especially applies to indie games which typically sell shorter and cheaper games. The last thing we need is to have more decent games padded for length with boring tedium like Assassin's Creed 2 or Mass Effect had.

 

Steam has a lot of indie games that puts it in a bit of a different situation than Origin. I'm certainly not against a refund policy, I just think there should be a restriction in place with regard to hours played so that indie devs don't get screwed. I mean, people can generally figure out a game is rubbish within a couple hours of playtime.

 

Perhaps say that you could only have a refund if you played less than 20% of the campaign or something?

[IdortMasterRace]

"Rights" their refund policy is out of whack so it's suddenly a push for human rights? Okay... by the way, putting people down is against CoC this is a forum of civil discussion calling people dumb is pathetic.

 

Who said 'human rights'?

[Trik'Stari]

Who said 'human rights'?

From what I've read, Australia apparently considers a refund as a "right" which is the weirdest thing I've ever heard.

[IdortMasterRace]

From what I've read, Australia apparently considers a refund as a "right" which is the weirdest thing I've ever heard.

 

A consumer right isn't a human right. I have no idea what you're even going on about right now.

[Trik'Stari]

A consumer right isn't a human right. I have no idea what you're even going on about right now.

How is it any kind of a right? That's just nonsense.

[RelentlessAF]

Who said 'human rights'?

Well if your talking about legal rights those don't really matter. Human rights are a more important issue and a better use of resources.

[IdortMasterRace]

How is it any kind of a right? That's just nonsense.

 

Uh, it's a right protected by a law. Do you not know what a right is?

 

Well if your talking about legal rights those don't really matter. Human rights are a more important issue and a better use of resources.

 

Yes, they do matter.

 

Christ, the Steam defence force in here is embarassing.

[Tigerbomb8]

How is it any kind of a right? That's just nonsense.

In what way is the right to return a defective product nonsense? 

[Trik'Stari]

In what way is the right to return a defective product nonsense? 

Normally it's not, but when it's a product that doesn't physically exist, and is entirely metaphysical in concept, things are different. Not to mention that when you buy something from a retailer that specifically says "no refunds" you have agreed to that fact.

 

How can they refund the game? With a physical product, you return the actual unit for a full refund, and the company gets its product back, whereas with games, especially digital downloads, they get nothing back, you've already experienced the game, and all they can realistically do is delete it from your steam account, which gets them nothing.

 

The only way I could support a refund for a digital download, is if it's something like the dayz standalone, and ends up shutting down before it leaves early access.

[Tigerbomb8]

Normally it's not, but when it's a product that doesn't physically exist, and is entirely metaphysical in concept, things are different. Not to mention that when you buy something from a retailer that specifically says "no refunds" you have agreed to that fact.

 

How can they refund the game? With a physical product, you return the actual unit for a full refund, and the company gets its product back, whereas with games, especially digital downloads, they get nothing back, you've already experienced the game, and all they can realistically do is delete it from your steam account, which gets them nothing.

 

The only way I could support a refund for a digital download, is if it's something like the dayz standalone, and ends up shutting down before it leaves early access.

Well then developers should start offering demos again.. 

[Trik'Stari]

Well then developers should start offering demos again.. 

If I remember correctly there have been instances where the demo was nothing like the final product. The end facts are this, you bought it, you agreed that there would be no refund, get over it. A refund is generally a courtesy by companies, I've never heard of a refund being a "consumer right"

 

I've bought shitty games before, I didn't get a refund, I was angry, so I just decided, I won't buy from that company again. Simple as that.

[RH00D]

okay whats the whole point in this. it's digital, its much harder to "return" something when there is no physical copy.

They revoke your ability to launch or download the game. If you've already downloaded it, it just prevents you from being able to launch it.

 

EA already does this. You can return a game purchased on Origin within 24 hours of the first launch, or within 7 days if you have not launched the game.

 

Valve also already has the capability to do this because they offer "free weekends" where you can download a game and play it and when the time is up they revoke your ability to access or play the game.

[Trik'Stari]

A thought, with valve having no offices or physical presence in Australia, what the hell does the Australian government think they can actually do about it?

[Anult]

A thought, with valve having no offices or physical presence in Australia, what the hell does the Australian government think they can actually do about it?

 

Because Valve is offering digital items to australian customers, they technically must abide by australian consumer law. Whether they have a physical presence or not makes no difference if you are offering and selling digital items within that country.

 

Valve have no problem gouging Aussie customers anyway with absurd prices so I think it's only fair if the ACCC demands a reasonable refund system in the event a customer gets screwed over.