Building a PC again and need help and guidance

[McAtk]

So I am building a pc and I need you help. I was discussing it with a friend and he pointed me to this forum and said that it is full of nice, knowledgeable and helpful people so I decided to give it a go.

I have some general ideas about parts that I want and I am very fuzzy on others that I need.

Stuff I have general ideas about: I think a Z97 chip set makes sense with a reasonable 200ish £ CPU to go with it. I am not looking to over clock to begin with apart from the customary 5 -10 % that is no brainer. I want a single VGA that will run smooth most games on 1920*1080 on a 24 inch monitor and I will not go beyond this resolution anytime soon. I have the monitor and already have 512 GB crucial m4 ssd so no need to buy. I am not an audio freak so any sounds will make me happy but I would like to have 2 Ethernet ports and will need WiFi that will do gaming reasonably well.

Fuzzy stuff: I like shiny stuff from back in my PC building days so I keep getting distracted by mobos like sabertooth, ROG etc. But quite frankly I am not sure I need them. MSI m power also caught my eye but they have much more features that I might need. But then again the idea with this build is to start with a good setup and add to it over time. So here comes the questions : Mobo which one ? VGA which one ? Case ... Needs to work now with stock cooling but in the future I want to upgrade to quiet water cooling so it has to be able to take the transition . CPU which one exactly haswell ? Memory I want to start with 8 GB and move to 16 but my brand awareness is from the time when Kingston was king of the hill so a bit old by PC building time frames. Both the CPU, VGA and cooling plus storage I will want to upgrade. VGA is it better to upgrade by adding cards in sli or buy a new better single card...

These are the main questions but I am sure I will remember other stuff as conversations takes off

Thanks for your time

Regards, Atk

[Thebman712]

wall of text

[givingtnt]

Www.pcpartpicker.com

[KemoKa]

Wow, such helpful people. Thanks for making our forum look so awesome. I'm sure you've met our friend's expectations nicely

 

@McAtk

Standard Z87 LGA 1150 ATX mobo (get an Asus, MSi or Gigabyte) (trust me, unless you want the super-premium stuff like M.2 SSDs and things, you won't need a Z97, and the performance increase that super-high-end and expensive ROG and Sabertooth gaming motherboards give you is negligible at best. You will never notice it.)

Intel Core i5 4670K. basically 2x Pentium Ks for 2x the price but you can't stick 2 pentium Ks in a single socket... You'll be happy with it.

an R9 270 or 270X will set you up to max out any current game at 1080p/60fps, as was it's purpose. Most people go with Asus, Sapphire or MSi but I would recommend checking out HIS's IceQ X2s, the coolers on those are excellent and they overclock like crazy. To answer your other question, it is much better to just get the single card and use that than get two slightly less powerful ones.

People are going to groan at me for saying this, but they all know it's the best option in this case... haha, um, if you are going for quiet water cooling but you also want a ton of options for cable management plus excellent build quality for the price, the Fractal Define R4 is the way to go. Thing is near dead silent if you optimize everything, it's built like a tank and it can handle a lot of cooling options. it's a fantastic case.

Ram shouldn't be much of an issue, since most irreputable brands have long since died out. Crucial, Kingston, Adata or Gskill do excellent budget kits. Go with 8GB now, that's all you're going to need, and you can upgrade later if you need to.

 

For case fans, you don't need to go overboard, just get some Corsair SP120s. Noctuas are all the rage here, but the price to performance ratios are abysmal.

[McAtk]

Wow, KemoKa after seeing the first two posts I started doubting myself and thinking I broke some unspoken rules of the forum hence did not reply byt hid away in my shame.

Thank you so very much. All of what you wrote makes sense. I was thinking of Z87 as well just got distracted by flashy promises and good looking mobos

I will check out Asus and MSI Z87 been a fan of both companies for long time.

Which version of the case do you recommend an amazon search brings out a lot of different cases with same name.

The VGA is R9 290 essentially an overkill according to you is there any point ?

And the same question for an i7 4770 /K?

I really like you suggestions as it means lighter damage on the wallet I am just curios as my past experience with hardware from long ago thought me that older gen / lower product line ( as i5 vs i7) ages very badly . Or is that not the case anymore.

The rest sounds very good and I will follow. Most probably will come back when water cooling is to happen as it will be my 1st time. But thank you again for the solid advise it makes a lot of sense. Also if I may add I feel like you spotted my inclination towards good value for money I do not like paying for diminishing returns.

Regards,

Atk

[KemoKa]

Wow, KemoKa after seeing the first two posts I started doubting myself and thinking I broke some unspoken rules of the forum hence did not reply byt hid away in my shame.

Thank you so very much. All of what you wrote makes sense. I was thinking of Z87 as well just got distracted by flashy promises and good looking mobos

I will check out Asus and MSI Z87 been a fan of both companies for long time.

Which version of the case do you recommend an amazon search brings out a lot of different cases with same name.

The VGA is R9 290 essentially an overkill according to you is there any point ?

And the same question for an i7 4770 /K?

I really like you suggestions as it means lighter damage on the wallet I am just curios as my past experience with hardware from long ago thought me that older gen / lower product line ( as i5 vs i7) ages very badly . Or is that not the case anymore.

The rest sounds very good and I will follow. Most probably will come back when water cooling is to happen as it will be my 1st time. But thank you again for the solid advise it makes a lot of sense. Also if I may add I feel like you spotted my inclination towards good value for money I do not like paying for diminishing returns.

Regards,

Atk

Yup, I'm poor so I am a total sucker for price to performance. I've never been able to afford to build a serious Intel rig but if you understand the components and know how to avoid bottlenecks it's easy.

I would say for the case get the windowed black version, but that is entirely subjective. I like to see my components, personally. Make sure it's the one made by Fractal Design. It's the Fractal Design Define R4

To answer your question about the GPU, unless you are running a 1440p/4K screen or doing some heavy OpenGL work, the 290 is waaaaaay overkill. It's the concept of price to performance. Buying a $500 or a $400 computer is not a sweet-spot experience, you are actually getting less for your money. Similarly, when you start spending fortunes on GTX Titans and R9 295 X2s, you are similarly getting less for your money. That's why graphics cards like the 270 and the 7870 exist. They deliver excellent performance in pretty much any standard gaming environment while costing a lot less than higher-end products.

Same goes for the i7 4770K, unless you are going for a hyperthreaded video-editing monster, you are wasting your money. The 4670K is more than enough for what you need.

Also, don't worry about aging. Processors these days age very well. the old Sandy Bridge Core i series processors are still used extensively today because they overclock so well. the two-year-old AMD FX8350 can still give most Haswells and every Ivy Bridge (including the Extreme Series ones) a run for their money. Same thing with the FX6300, it's a relative dinosaur but it overclocks like a boss and kicks ass in everything it does, especially gaming.

One more thing, for future reference, don't use these other two guys as gauges for the rest of the forum. they're just being lazy sods. Pretty much everyone else here will help you in any way they can

 

Good luck on your build

[McAtk]

So initial list ... How does that look ?

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£160.00 @ Amazon UK)

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£22.63 @ Ebuyer)

Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste (£11.27 @ Overclockers.co.uk)

Motherboard: MSI Z87 MPOWER ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£107.84 @ Scan.co.uk)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory (£67.37 @ CCL Computers)

Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 270X 2GB HAWK Video Card (£148.79 @ Aria PC)

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (£84.98 @ Novatech)

Power Supply: Corsair RM 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£88.83 @ Ebuyer)

Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor (£258.29 @ Scan.co.uk)

Case Fan: Corsair Air Series SP120 Quiet Edition (2-Pack) 37.9 CFM 120mm Fans (£19.34 @ Scan.co.uk)

Total: £969.34

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-08-21 02:11 BST+0100

Have I missed something? How does it look ?

Opinions ?

BTW is there a cheaper good 24in Monitor ?

Edit: thanks again for the detailed info it helped make up my mind .

[Guest]

Why are you going for Z87 ? There is no point in getting a slightly older chipset and cpu when you can get a Z97 board and i5 4690K for the same price. Also devils canyon should run a bit cooler than haswell.

[McAtk]

Hmm good question the same mpower mobo from MSI and the CPU you suggest makes negligible difference in total price. This is certainly a very good point.

[Bwell]

Yup, I'm poor so I am a total sucker for price to performance. I've never been able to afford to build a serious Intel rig but if you understand the components and know how to avoid bottlenecks it's easy.

I would say for the case get the windowed black version, but that is entirely subjective. I like to see my components, personally. Make sure it's the one made by Fractal Design. It's the Fractal Design Define R4

To answer your question about the GPU, unless you are running a 1440p/4K screen or doing some heavy OpenGL work, the 290 is waaaaaay overkill. It's the concept of price to performance. Buying a $500 or a $400 computer is not a sweet-spot experience, you are actually getting less for your money. Similarly, when you start spending fortunes on GTX Titans and R9 295 X2s, you are similarly getting less for your money. That's why graphics cards like the 270 and the 7870 exist. They deliver excellent performance in pretty much any standard gaming environment while costing a lot less than higher-end products.

Same goes for the i7 4770K, unless you are going for a hyperthreaded video-editing monster, you are wasting your money. The 4670K is more than enough for what you need.

Also, don't worry about aging. Processors these days age very well. the old Sandy Bridge Core i series processors are still used extensively today because they overclock so well. the two-year-old AMD FX8350 can still give most Haswells and every Ivy Bridge (including the Extreme Series ones) a run for their money. Same thing with the FX6300, it's a relative dinosaur but it overclocks like a boss and kicks ass in everything it does, especially gaming.

One more thing, for future reference, don't use these other two guys as gauges for the rest of the forum. they're just being lazy sods. Pretty much everyone else here will help you in any way they can

 

Good luck on your build

I have noticed on this forum everyone just goes to the top product which adds more money when really unless you're going to use it why bother. Your information has been very helpful to me too I posted on here with my build as i'm a first time builder and everyone told me to upgrade to an r9 290 instead of the r9 280x 

McAtk, I think your build is very good if you had the spare money for z97 could be longevity sake but if you don't have the money or want to save stick to the z87. I am the same as you i see something like a sabertooth and go OH MUST HAVE, then realise i probably don't need it haha.

[McAtk]

Exactly the supposed longetivity attracted me to z97 I can get a current 4 the gen Intel and upgrade in an year or two to 5th when they get cheaper.

On the VGA I am sticking even to 270 I will not go beyond 1920*1080 so should be plenty enough and also the games I play ... I am certain it will be enough my unusual roster is something like

Civ 5 and waiting now for the new civ. SC2, D3, DOTA2, borderlands all of em , and stuff like that. I am currently playing on a radeon HD 5850 mobility on 1680*1050 and stuff plays reasonable if on lower settings but at least full res so considering what a big leap all of this is it will be more than enough.

But me being a techie person and I used to build PCs in the past the attraction is there to have something that has staying power and I can just jack it up every now and again with better parts without having to change the whole mobo and stuff.

[Bwell]

Yeah exactly i you could spend 300 dollars more now but that stuff will out date. I say go with a good motherboard because they do last the sabertooth ones have 5 year warranties so that is always nice. I considering getting the 290 for myself but for the 150-170 dollar difference where i am its not worth it haha

[Guest]

So initial list ... How does that look ?

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£160.00 @ Amazon UK)

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£22.63 @ Ebuyer)

Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste (£11.27 @ Overclockers.co.uk)

Motherboard: MSI Z87 MPOWER ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£107.84 @ Scan.co.uk)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory (£67.37 @ CCL Computers)

Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 270X 2GB HAWK Video Card (£148.79 @ Aria PC)

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (£84.98 @ Novatech)

Power Supply: Corsair RM 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£88.83 @ Ebuyer)

Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor (£258.29 @ Scan.co.uk)

Case Fan: Corsair Air Series SP120 Quiet Edition (2-Pack) 37.9 CFM 120mm Fans (£19.34 @ Scan.co.uk)

Total: £969.34

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-08-21 02:11 BST+0100

Have I missed something? How does it look ?

Opinions ?

BTW is there a cheaper good 24in Monitor ?

Edit: thanks again for the detailed info it helped make up my mind .

The AOC G2460FQ is a cheaper monitor. It is also 144Hz. I don't know how good it is compared to the Asus, but it is cheaper.

 

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-024-AO&groupid=17&catid=1851

 

If you only plan on running a single gpu, then a 550W/650W psu is enough. Something like the Superflower Golden Green HX 550W or Superflower Leadex 650W if you want a fully modular psu.

 

I would try and squeeze in a faster gpu, as it will be beneficial with a 144Hz monitor. If you go for the Superflower psu and AOC monitor then you should be able to fit a 280X in the spec.

[McAtk]

Okay this all makes very good sense I know now what I won't mostly.

Next question ... I want to add some nice touches to the case.

1 question: probably I am going with the yellow MSI empower mobo what color led will make it look nice combined

2. What sort of LEDs do I get for the fractal design define r4 case

3. How the hell do I install these things

Is there any tricks and tips that I need to know. Never done aesthetics on case hence the stupid questions.

[brob]

The Asus Z97-Deluxe motherboard has two LAN ports and WiFi ac.

 

I would suggest the Nzxt H440 ATX case. It is available in a number of accent colors.

 

Lots of very good memory. Adata, Corsair, Crucial, G.Skill, Kingston, Mushkin and others are all good brands. Look for DDR3-1600 CAS <= 9. Although higher speed kits are often well priced.

 

R9 290X is very well priced these days. Nvidia is expected to release its next generation of consumer gpu in October.

 

You may want to consider the Swiftech H220-X cpu cooler. It offers an easy entry into liquid cooler. And it looks good.

 

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  (£164.34 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: Asus Z97-DELUXE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  (£190.00 @ Aria PC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory  (£126.10 @ Ebuyer)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 290X 4GB Vapor-X Video Card  (£409.55 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Case: NZXT H440 (Blue/Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  (£89.99 @ Aria PC)
Total: £979.98
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-08-22 00:52 BST+0100

[McAtk]

Okay i have to ask isn't 290X overkill for 1080p gaming?

Also the dual ethernet was a nice to have more than necessity. While I am a huge fan of the Asus deluxe product line, I have had 4 of them in the past, the price is quite steep and i am not sure what more do I get compared to the msi mpower.

The case looks good i will consider it. The memory is there any point in getting higher speed ones like 1800 2100 etc. Also i am a fan of corsair Kingston and mushkin but just corsair has like 5 different product lines... I am so confused what is the difference and which I bebi get there is like

Vengeance, dominator, dominator plus, vengeance pro, xms3, and all with numerous speeds this completely confused me now.

Last time I built a pc it was corsair, corsair Xmas for slightly better and corsair dominator for enthusiasts

[brob]

Okay i have to ask isn't 290X overkill for 1080p gaming?

Also the dual ethernet was a nice to have more than necessity. While I am a huge fan of the Asus deluxe product line, I have had 4 of them in the past, the price is quite steep and i am not sure what more do I get compared to the msi mpower.

The case looks good i will consider it. The memory is there any point in getting higher speed ones like 1800 2100 etc. Also i am a fan of corsair Kingston and mushkin but just corsair has like 5 different product lines... I am so confused what is the difference and which I bebi get there is like

Vengeance, dominator, dominator plus, vengeance pro, xms3, and all with numerous speeds this completely confused me now.

Last time I built a pc it was corsair, corsair Xmas for slightly better and corsair dominator for enthusiasts

 

Today R9 290X is overkill. In four years it likely won't be, but it will still be very good. It also allows for multiple monitors and higher resolutions should you ever decide to make a move. R9 290 or GTX 780 would also be reasonable choices.

 

No doubt the Asus Deluxe motherboards are premium priced. I listed it because it does have the two LAN connections and WiFi. But you could get any z97 motherboard and add LAN & WiFi cards. Although when one starts to add up the price, motherboards like the Deluxe may not be that much more expensive.

 

For gaming higher speed memory does not appear to make a real difference. Although there is some very limited data suggesting that BF4  performance can be improved with faster memory. These days one often sees faster memory priced close or the same as DDR-1600. In my opinion one should buy the least expensive kit that is DDR3-1600 or higher, with good timings, is compatible with the cpu cooling solution, and if I am taking appearance into account, looks good. There is little difference in quality between name brand lines.

[McAtk]

And so it begins,

 

After some souls searching and ebaying this is the current state of affairs.

As recommended found myself a Fractal Design R4, while going to pick it up from the guy from ebay he mentioned that he had an Antec TruePower 750W Gold Certified Semi-Modular PSU so you can see what happened ... both assembled and waiting for further components.

 

Bought MSI Z97 Gaming 5 Mobo in the end. I am not overclocker neither will i begin to be so no need for OC centric mobos. And i got myself a cpu and cooler here they go: 

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler

Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard

 

I am still mulling over memory: How much to start with ? 

And also VGA: I am looking for something to keep up with 1080p for the next 1 year i am very happy to spend more money after that on a bran new and scrap this one. So literally i need something to run current gen at 1080p on high details and not a future proofed one such as 290X. 

Is still 270X a good choice or it has to be 280X ... I am still shooting for saving some bucks where they are not needed. 

[McAtk]

This is it i am losing my mind. 

Realized 280X 270X is just a re brand ... NOT a fan of this. Quite frankly i hate re branding ever since Nvidia first did it what a decade ago now ?

Can someone please please tell me what to do. 

I want to keep it budget friendly HOWEVER i am willing to go the extra mile is someone reasonably explains to me what a new architecture / expnsive GPI will bring to the table ? 

How better is the new AMD architecture i.e. 290X to the rebranded 78xx ?

Is nVidia perhaps the way to go or are they too over priced ? Do i get something with nvidia that i do not get with AMD for the extra price !?!! I am literally tearing my little left over hair over the GPU the rest i have pretty much figure out and started on  

[brob]

This is it i am losing my mind. 

Realized 280X 270X is just a re brand ... NOT a fan of this. Quite frankly i hate re branding ever since Nvidia first did it what a decade ago now ?

Can someone please please tell me what to do. 

I want to keep it budget friendly HOWEVER i am willing to go the extra mile is someone reasonably explains to me what a new architecture / expnsive GPI will bring to the table ? 

How better is the new AMD architecture i.e. 290X to the rebranded 78xx ?

Is nVidia perhaps the way to go or are they too over priced ? Do i get something with nvidia that i do not get with AMD for the extra price !?!! I am literally tearing my little left over hair over the GPU the rest i have pretty much figure out and started on

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7503/the-amd-radeon-r9-270x-270-review-feat-asus-his and http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review will answer the question of how much better the new generation of AMD is.

 

Right now AMD gpu are a better value in most markets.

[McAtk]

Tank you brob.

 

Okay I read both articles very carefully in their entirety. 

Here are my thoughts and I would love some feedback if possible. 

It seems that the R9 290X is a much more mature and the only new card in the AMD range for this year. There seems to be a lot of improvements in terms of PCB design, GCN 1.0 vs 1.1 etc. Also a lot more hardware processing units have been added. 

However what i got from the review is that there is no new notable "functional" difference. Such as DirectX version support, or anything else that a regular user like myself might need ( not a developer, neither a scientist ). There seem to be new instructions but again i do not see them as anything i might require. 

Now the performance tests look absolutely impressive i will admit that but i find it tough to rationalize buying this considering that most of their tests were done in very high resolutions. It seems like even anandtech did not think that this card is for 1080p gamin ( 1920x1080) as most of their tests were done on higher resolution.

 

At the same time the R9 280X seems to be a re brand but ... with slight improvements here and there and most of their tests in the 270X review where they showed 280X performance as well show very good performance on 1080p.

 

So ultimately i now understand the landscape much better so again thank you brob! 

So now my current feeling is that considering that for the next 2 years i will NOT move to anything above 1080p not will i move to a multi display setup is there honestly any point in getting a 290X ? How can i justify the price difference ?

Also can someone explain to me why can i find a 290X in amazon the same price as some 280X ? This confuses me even more ... Example: 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sapphire-TRI-X-Graphics-Card-PCI-E/dp/B00HFA44YQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409560401&sr=8-1&keywords=r9+290x

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sapphire-Toxic-1100MHz-Express-Graphics/dp/B00FOQZZ9G/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1409560411&sr=8-4&keywords=r9+280x

 

Again help much appreciated ... Also if you recommend one or the other option can you point me to a manufacturer version of the card i should be looking at ... there is such a vast price difference and design difference my head hurts. 

[brob]

...

So ultimately i now understand the landscape much better so again thank you brob! 

So now my current feeling is that considering that for the next 2 years i will NOT move to anything above 1080p not will i move to a multi display setup is there honestly any point in getting a 290X ? How can i justify the price difference ?

Also can someone explain to me why can i find a 290X in amazon the same price as some 280X ? This confuses me even more ... Example: 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sapphire-TRI-X-Graphics-Card-PCI-E/dp/B00HFA44YQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409560401&sr=8-1&keywords=r9+290x

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sapphire-Toxic-1100MHz-Express-Graphics/dp/B00FOQZZ9G/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1409560411&sr=8-4&keywords=r9+280x

 

Again help much appreciated ... Also if you recommend one or the other option can you point me to a manufacturer version of the card i should be looking at ... there is such a vast price difference and design difference my head hurts. 

 

Given your criteria there is no reason to get an R9 290X.

 

I can only guess at the pricing of the two cards. The "RRP" of the 280X is unfathomable. Anandtech has reviews of both gpu, (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7406/the-sapphire-r9-280x-toxic-review/3, http://www.anandtech.com/show/7601/sapphire-radeon-r9-290-review-our-first-custom-cooled-290/3). It seems that the 290 Tri-X is a good deal.