July 25th 2014 - The WAN Show Document

[LinusTech]

Once again I'm relying on the community to save me from watching my own show... If you're watching the show and wouldn't mind filling in the timestamps in the below Google Doc... You're AMAZING!

 

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SFdsFIYpeoeKNUqtic9LPgesVuJW533E8M07FizQDYM/edit?usp=sharing

 

News Items

Google Buys Twitch for 1$B

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: Aps

Source 2: slashgear.com

- “We don’t know everything about this deal, such as when it will be announced and the exact purchase price.”

- Google and Twitch declined comment.

- Both companies happen to be speaking at GamesBeat 2014 event in September.

- Google acquired YouTube in 2006 for $1.65 billion.

- More than 13 billion minutes of video are watched per month on Twitch

- serving more than 6 billion hours of video per month to 1 billion users worldwide

- The root of the sources are actually "sources familiar with the matter."

- It is highly likely and very probable… but not 100% officially confirmed

 

Ubisoft to send a fan up everest to play far cry 4

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/07/25/ubisoft-announces-far-cry-4-competition-quest-for-everest

- Trip includes: (i) round-trip coach-class air transportation from the major airport closest to the Grand Prize winner's home to Kathmandu, Nepal (in Sponsor's sole discretion); (ii) fourteen (14) night Sponsor-specified accommodations; (iii) guided trek to Mount Everest base camp; and (iv) $1,000 spending allowance awarded in the form of a check.

- ctrl + f for summit = nothin

- "There is inherent risk of death and significant injury to persons and property associated with the Quest for Everest experience and by participating, winner understands and assumes this risk."

- Everest is over crowded now and covered in trash

- ngm.nationalgeographic.com - Everest is overcrowded

- Climbing Everest over the years

- overcrowded image 1

- over crowded image 2

- over crowded image 3

- Trash on the mountain 1

- Trash on the mountain 2

- Trash on the mountain 3

 

Nvidia GeForce GTX 870 and 880

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: TechCzech

- All of these specs are in the OP’s post

- GM204 revision A1 - 28nm chip

- Size between GK104 and GK110 but smaller than GK110

- CUDA less than fully unlocked GK110

- Performance - better than GTX 780 Ti

- Memory bandwidth most likely 256bit

- Power consumption below GTX 780 Ti with better performance

- Core GM204 no ARM cores

- Memory capacity 8GB for GTX 880 (Ti)

- The source is a “secret”

- Many of these lately

 

Comcast takes blame for customer service rep.

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: Dietrichw

- Comcast Chief Operating Officer Dave Watson:

* t was painful to listen to this call

* I am not surprised that we have been criticized for it.

* The agent on this call did a lot of what we trained him and paid him—and thousands of other Retention agents—to do

- Most of the internal letter was about how they need to review and change their policies

- Openly accepts blame, when you are sending an internal letter to THIS MANY PEOPLE I’m pretty sure you expect it to leak.

 

British MP wants to punish people for stealing in-game items in WoW

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: Johners

- By stealing he is talking about hacking to steal and through promise of trade or service (Mail me this item and mail you that one).

- New law proposed so: “people who steal online items in video games with a real-world monetary value receive the same sentences as criminals who steal real-world items of the same monetary value”.

- The MP said: “If you’ve spent £500 on building up your armed forces and someone takes them away online, I guess you can feel hard done-by and you want your £500 back,” he said. “People shouldn’t be doing it.”.

- The MP (Weatherley); wants authorities to target large-scale item thieves, and said he doesn’t want to see people going to jail for small-time stealing.

Linus: should we be limiting this to items purchased in an “auction house” for which real dollars we paid or should time spent “earning” it be factored in?

Valve added a thumbstick to it’s controller

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: Dietrichw

- First the gamepad's  touch screen was replaced for eight buttons (a makeshift d-pad and the standard X, Y, B and A toggles).

- Now 4 of those will be changed to a thumbstick.

- Image from the  latest Steam client beta.

- Can discuss how we’d use it?

 

Seagate 8-10 TB drives

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: WereCat

Source 2: bit-tech.net

- Seagate announced that it is confident it will be successful in bringing its promised 8TB mechanical hard drives to market.

- They did not provide was a date when the drives would enter mass production as SKUs for general customers.

- Aimed firmly at the enterprise market and come with a price-tag to suit.

- Seagate has not given clear information about what kind of technology they’re using to achieve these amazing capacities.
- Combined with WD’s recent release of 6TB Red drives is the first time we’ve seen everyone making big strides in capacity since the rush to 4TB (first drive late 2011)

 

Steam Music desktop interface beta

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: Rafy

- http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steammusic#announcements

- Not a ton of features or support

- Only supports MP3

- “Unless you’re simply a big fan of the “Play” button, you may not find your favorite music feature exists here just yet.”

- Works seamlessly in the steam overlay menu

- asking for feedback in terms of features… which they are severely lacking at this point in time

 

LG sells a record 14.5 million smartphones

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: Dietrichw

- its highest total ever and 20 percent more than last year.

- more than a third of them were LTE models.

- Operating profit of $599 million.

- Samsung has a $8.27 billion operating profit.

 

Microsoft to merge all separate versions of windows into one

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/185305-microsoft-to-merge-all-sepearte-version-of-windows-into-one/

- each Windows was made by a different team. Now it will be 1 big team.(Windows, Windows Phone, and Xbox)

- "streamline the next version of Windows from three operating systems into one single converged operating system."

- "this means one operating system that covers all screen sizes."

- will still sell different editions of Windows

- will allow the creation of universal Windows apps that work across all devices running the OS.

- Kind of the same news that we heard in april, all that is different now is that the team is all together in one group; here is the news from april where they spoke of universal apps

 

Samsung employees gave back a total of 2.9$M

Source 1:Linustechtips.com// OP: Dietrichw

- still a $45,000 bonus each (gave back an average of about $15,000

- For its first quarter of 2014, Samsung reported a profit of 8.49 trillion won ($8.23 billion). it's a dip from the 8.78 trillion won that it saw a year earlier

- was from across about 200 managers from the mobile division

- The value of the returned bonuses is estimated at over 3 billion won ($2.92 million).

 

Shield Tablet and Controller

Source 1: linustechtips.com OP: sharif

Source 2: bbc.co.uk

- NVIDIA® Tegra® K1 192 core Kepler GPU,

- 2.2 GHz ARM Cortex A15 CPU with 2GB RAM

- Display - 8-inch 1920x1200 multi-touch Full HD display

- Front facing stereo speakers, dual bass reflex port with built-in microphone

- 32 GB (WiFi+4G LTE) / 16 GB (WiFi-only)

- 5 megapixel camera

- GPU-accelerated NVIDIA DirectStylus™ 2 for note taking or drawing.

- Grid cloud gaming beta.

- Nvidia is charging $299/£229 for a version of the tablet with 16 gigabytes of storage, and $399/£299 for a 32GB version with an added 4G chip.

- Several controllers can be paired with the tablet at one time, allowing multiplayer gaming, however at present they do not work with other devices.

Linus: by comparsion a 16GB iPad MIni is $400, while a 32GB LTE is $630, Nexus 7 is 220 for 16GB, 349 for 32GB LTE

 

$100k of Yogscast kickstarter’s money unaccounted for

Source 1: pcgamer.com

- Winterkewl Games, the developer, asserted that $150,000 of the money raised went to Yogscast, which was to use it to create physical rewards and hire a lead programmer for the project.

- roughly two-thirds of that amount remains unaccounted for.

- Lewis Brindley of Yogscast insisted in a response that the update "omits much," he didn't explicitly deny the allegation either, saying only that "there's no value in going into detail."

- after raising $567,665 in a 2012 Kickstarter campaign - more than double its initial goal of $250,000 the game fell apart.

- Winterkewl missed multiple milestones and "continued to come up short of the quality expectations," leading Yogscast to refuse to advertise preorders, effectively cutting off a source of funding.

- In the end they negotiated that  $150,000 would be transferred to the Yogscast with the understanding that they would use that money exclusively to create and ship all the physical rewards, and they would help hire the main programmer that we still didn't have on the project," Vale wrote But that apparently didn't happen, and at that point Winterkewl no longer had the funds to hire one on its own

 

- only $50,000 was earmarked for the creation and shipping of physical rewards

- Reading through comments it appears the Yogscast crew may be communicating more privately with backers. Apparently everyone got a copy of Nerd Kingstom’s TUG open world game, but some backer levels like named items may not be available...

 

Samsung Level vs. Beats

Source 1: theverge.com

- Last week, Samsung launched a new lineup of products in the US called Level.

- four products — over-ear, on-ear, and in-ear headphones, and a Bluetooth speaker

- Level Over ($380) produces a cleaner, truer sound — a sound that’s adjustable with Samsung’s Level app.

- The Level Ons ($180) are more comfortable and more pleasing to my ears than Beats’ Solo 2.

- There are a lot of great-sounding $150 earbuds, and the Level In don't come close. Even Beats offers a fuller sound, with more clarity and resonance.

- The Level Box easily joins the front of the pack when it comes to Bluetooth speakers, leaving the Beats Pill 2.0 well in the dust.

[Kevinkt]

neato! time to watch 

[PokémonTrainerFour]

Is there a reason to highlight 'show' every week?

 

[ofr057]

with the whole room water cooling loop you should use a 20 or 40 gallon drum for the reservoir then in summer you could drop dry ice in it to cool it even more

[felixthemaster1]

I am a tb horder, I love more storage space, but my Mobo only supports drives up to 3tb   I really want the new comming drives so this sucks

[Moejoe]

Am i the only one that sees a problem with the watercooled room idea in winter? What are you going to do to prevent the radiators from freezing in the night when nobody is working at the workstations?

 

Not to mention the condensation issues one would get with close to zero degree water.

[onionring]

You should consider moving the computers themselves to another room, server style, the wan show room maybe? (for more exposure for the people giving you the parts (so you could get more))

while you will remove the cpu/gpu heat with the loop, all the other parts will still heat the room. /make some noise since the parts will still need cooling

 

I would run monitor cables and usb extension thru a wall / floor duct bank style and have only the monitor and keyboard in the room.

 

I did that and it rly helped a lot for heat and eliminated all noise where i worked and my pc was cooler as it was in the basement.

 

 

As far as the condensation part, you could fix it quite easily with two loops in series, you cannot just run it all 100% thru the exterior loop as that will make condensation. you have to control the flow thru the radiators to control the temperature in the reservoir.

You need to set the pump2 to keep the water in the interior loop above room temp.

btw the second loop need to use Prestone (car antifreeze), the interior loop can use regular computer cooling fluid.

 

See this drawing for the info, i did add my suggestion of remote computers but you get the idea

The design needs to have the pump flow adjusted to account for the resistance of each of the pc's loop or you ll destroy the pumps/blocks inside by feeding in too much pressure(unless you put a vented reservoir in each system)

 

Also, the setup drawn under this one also has the benefit of not straining each system's pump by forcing the flow thru them, it just runs the pump1 to circulate the water for it to be available to the systems, there should be a valve/raidators/restrictions near the cold water return (inside) to keep a little bit of restriction. This is exactly like a car fuel setup with a return fuel line, btw. each part(pc) taking only what it needs and never too much.

 

 

If you cant get a water-water heat exchanger and don t mind both interior and exterior liquids to be antifreeze, this loop could be used:

 

[13CA350]

Linus Media Group- Now with 100% more water cooling!

[Syntaxvgm]

For the watercooling I think they need to take a look at the increasingly common practice of server watercooling, like from asetek. 

I believe it should be done with each system having it's own pump, pulling from a "cold pipe" and pushing into a "hot pipe".

Using universal pumps and parallel piping is usually a disaster. 

Besides quick disconnects, I believe you need check valves, which are basically fittings that only allow flow one way. 

There are many types of them, but any cheap low pressure plastic one would work. 

I also have a few good ideas to solve condensation. Some simple, some elaborate. One involving an arduino. 

I could help design the system, but I only would put the effort in if I were directly asked to. 

[onionring]

For the watercooling I think they need to take a look at the increasingly common practice of server watercooling, like from asetek. 

I believe it should be done with each system having it's own pump, pulling from a "cold pipe" and pushing into a "hot pipe". Besides quick disconnects, I believe you need check valves, which are basically fittings that only allow flow one way. 

 

There are many types of them, but any cheap low pressure plastic one would work. 

I also have a few good ideas to solve condensation. Some simple, some elaborate. One involving an arduino. 

I could help design the system, but I only would put the effort in if I were directly asked to. 

Since they want to put a fully enclosed system in each of the pc, i assume they want to use a reservoir for each so the checkvalve  at the intake of each system isn t rly necessary if the res is vented but a balancing valve could be usefull as it would allow to set each system to have exactly the same flow as the others.

 

The check walve at each computer oulet could be usefull tho but i learned to never thrust such valves as at best it will block the flow of one system, it wont allow normal flow at all times.

It would be better to run individual lines back to the vented reservoir. (to prevent a system from stalling another one)

 

Yes, a controller , arduino or otherwise, would be needed to control the temperature of the fluid by regulating the pump's flow to avoid condensation.

[Syntaxvgm]

Since they want to put a fully enclosed system in each of the pc, i assume they want to use a reservoir for each so the checkvalve  at the intake of each system isn t rly necessary if the res is vented but a balancing valve could be usefull as it would allow to set each system to have exactly the same flow as the others.

 

The check walve at each computer oulet could be usefull tho but i learned to never thrust such valves... It would be better to run individual lines back to the vented reservoir. (to prevent a system from stalling another one)

 

Yes, a controller , arduino or otherwise, would be needed to control the temperature of the fluid by regulating the pump's flow to avoid condensation.

Yah, the check valve is simply for the connection to the hot pipe. As other PCs would be pumping into it, we couldn't want reverse flow into any system that is turned off. I don't really see an issue with using it. A lot of server systems use similar techniques, and I think the best path is to mimic those glorious systems. 

Though for a unified pump and parallel system, a balancing valve is not a bad idea. I assume you would have gate valves at each system then? 

And there are other solutions besides a controller. I had an idea for my own place some time ago which involved sectioning off a small area with a window. I could keep the window open in the summer, and in cold times I could shut the window and open the area to the room for free heat. 

[onionring]

Yah, the check valve is simply for the connection to the hot pipe. As other PCs would be pumping into it, we couldn't want reverse flow into any system that is turned off. I don't really see an issue with using it. A lot of server systems use similar techniques, and I think the best path is to mimic those glorious systems. 

Though for a unified pump and parallel system, a balancing valve is not a bad idea. I assume you would have gate valves at each system then? 

And there are other solutions besides a controller. I had an idea for my own place some time ago which involved sectioning off a small area with a window. I could keep the window open in the summer, and in cold times I could shut the window and open the area to my room for free heat. 

 

balancing valves are special valves made to ajust precisely the flow of the system (it s on almost all HVAC systems),

 

gate valves are kinda on-off (not precise), so you can t rly tune with that, but you can try.

 

the issue with the checkvales, if the system is way off, is that they don t prevent a reduction of flow at the outlet of the system, they only try to prevent back flow, it s necessary but totally independent flow is better if the system isn t balanced. (which could happen if the tubing length out of each pc isn t identical (follow the same curve, is at the exact same height)

 

their goal is to prevent the need of an AC unit so i guess they ll put the rads outside, but yes they could put the heat exchanger inside in the winter...

[Syntaxvgm]

balancing valves are special valves made to ajust precisely the flow of the system (it s on almost all HVAC systems),

 

gate valves are kinda on-off (not precise), so you can t rly tune with that, but you can try.

 

the issue with the checkvales, if the system is way off, is that they don t prevent a reduction of flow at the outlet of the system, they only try to prevent back flow, it s necessary but totally independent flow is better if the system isn t balanced.

 

their goal is to prevent the need of an AC unit so i guess they ll put the rads outside, but yes they could put the heat exchanger inside in the winter...

Oh oh oh .well I didn't mean check valves or gate valves for regulation. I wanted each system to have it's own pump, and own flow rate. The check valve is simply to prevent back flow and nothing more. Sure with more systems turned on the flow rate for the main pipe and the radiators would be faster, but that's just fine. With Individual pumps, you don't have to worry about flow rate to each system that way. It just sucks in what it needs when it's on, and pushes out to the hot pipe. With a check valve or a gate valve on the hot side, probably a check valve, it would not back flow when the system is off. I think that's the simplest way to do it, and similar to the way servers do it. 

[onionring]

Oh oh oh .well I didn't mean check valves or gate valves for regulation. I wanted each system to have it's own pump, and own flow rate. The check valve is simply to prevent back flow and nothing more. Sure with more systems turned on the flow rate for the main pipe and the radiators would be faster, but that's just fine. With Individual pumps, you don't have to worry about flow rate to each system that way. It just sucks in what it needs when it's on, and pushes out to the hot pipe. With a check valve or a gate valve on the hot side, probably a check valve, it would not back flow when the system is off. I think that's the simplest way to do it, and similar to the way servers do it. 

 

It s almost that way,

 

if you put the pump directly inline with the big one feeding the , it s possible the big one could overpower the said small pump and just increase the flow uncontrollably,(well more than what was designed) (justlike a car at idle in gear going down a hill)

but if you have balancing valves, you can limit the flow to the loop in the computer,

having a pump doesn t mean the flow inside a loop is determined by it,

 

one way to do it is:

1 main pump just circulates water up to the pcs, then each system allows only the amount of flow they need by restricting the flow to them and the rest is regulated by the return restriction.

 

Another way to do it is:

Modulating the flow of the main pump to be exactly what the computers need but then you need to control the pump so that the pressure inside the pipe is constant.

 

The main problem i see with using restrictions or controlling the epressure is that the pumps inside could cavitate (the pump doesn t pump if there s negative pressure behind it) which is REALLY bad. Having a reservoir in each system would prevent that from happening but then you need to regulate the flow to prevent the said reservoirs from overflowing.

[Syntaxvgm]

It s almost that way,

 

if you put the pump directly inline with the big one feeding the , it s possible the big one could overpower the said small pump and just increase the flow uncontrollably,(well more than what was designed) (justlike a car at idle in gear going down a hill)

but if you have balancing valves, you can limit the flow to the loop in the computer,

having a pump doesn t mean the flow inside a loop is determined by it,

 

1 main pump just circulates water up to the pcs, then each system allows only the amount of flow they need by restricting the flow to them and the rest is regulated by the return restriction.

 

Another way to do it is to modulate the flow of the main pump to be exactly what the computers need but then you need to control the pump so that the pressure inside the pipe is constant.

oh...I wasn't including any pumps besides the PC ones. I think with good pc pumps, it should be able to push it all. But yea given there is a larger pump, I wouldn't do individual pumps. If I did I would likely use heat plates or exchangers instead. 

[VSG]

I have experience with large loops and having rads outside and I really don't think this is a good idea at all. Oh well, let's see what these guys do.

[Drew_Doug]

How will the weather affect the operational properties of your radiators over time? I feel like if you have them mounted outside the fins could develop a layer of rust, which would obviously be bad. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[onionring]

How will the weather affect the operational properties of your radiators over time? I feel like if you have them mounted outside the fins could develop a layer of rust, which would obviously be bad. Maybe I'm wrong though.

 

there should be paint on the rad from the factory, so yea

but the rads will indeed pack with dust/other things so a little cleaning will be required.

they should house the rads in a little enclosure outside with a filter maybe....

[Syntaxvgm]

there should be paint on the rad from the factory, so yea

but the rads will indeed pack with dust/other things so a little cleaning will be required.

they should house the rads in a little enclosure outside with a filter maybe....

see this is why I vote inside with a small sectioned off area with a window. It's just easier. 

[onionring]

see this is why I vote inside with a small sectioned off area with a window. It's just easier. 

 

well it s easier but it s not the point, they want to get the heat outside, the next best thing would be to put the rad in the garage if there is one and they don t use it.

[Syntaxvgm]

well it s easier but it s not the point, they want to get the heat outside, the next best thing would be to put the rad in the garage if there is one and they don t use it.

yah the window would be open, and sectioned off from the rest of the room. That's how I used to do my mining rig to prevent a sauna. 

I think your idea of the enclosure is likely what they would do though. 

[Kryoclasm]

ROOM WATER COOLING.

 

Don't know if this might be useful, but I made a diagram on how to cool a room of computers for you to base you system from.

 

 

I enjoy the WAN show BTW.

 

Kryoclasm

[onionring]

ROOM WATER COOLING.

 

Don't know if this might be useful, but I made a diagram on how to cool a room of computers for you to base you system from.

 

I enjoy the WAN show BTW.

 

Kryoclasm

 

btw this wont work as you can t control of the temperature which will cause condensation 9 months of the year... even if you control the speed of the main pump, you ll kinda control the temperature of the system but the flow will become insufficient to feed the comps resulting in cavitation of the smaller pumps.

[Moejoe]

How will the weather affect the operational properties of your radiators over time? I feel like if you have them mounted outside the fins could develop a layer of rust, which would obviously be bad. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Copper and Aluminum, which are the most common radiator materials, dont rust like iron anyway. Both form a protective layer when they oxidize, which actually help to keep the material save from acids or additional rusting.

 

I still feel that low temperature in winter will be the largest problem to this endeavour, since even automotive frost protection only works to -20°C.Also the liquid becomes much more viscous at low temperatures which will probably lead to gunk clogging the fins of small computer radiators.I think this problem definitly needs two seperated loops, aswell as a car radiator instead of computer ones in the second loop.

 

The fans getting frozen in the night could be a problem aswell.

[onionring]

Copper and Aluminum, which are the most common radiator materials, dont rust like iron anyway. Both form a protective layer when they oxidize, which actually help to keep the material save from acids or additional rusting.

 

I still feel that low temperature in winter will be the largest problem to this endeavour, since even automotive frost protection only works to -20°C.Also the liquid becomes much more viscous at low temperatures which will probably lead to gunk clogging the fins of small computer radiators.I think this problem definitly needs two seperated loops, aswell as a car radiator instead of computer ones in the second loop.

 

The fans getting frozen in the night could be a problem aswell.

 

btw car antifreeze is rated at lower than -37C or even -64C, so it won t freeze in the loop (they re in BC, it doesn t rly get cold like the rest of Canada)

http://prestone.com/products/antifreeze_coolant/product_list?select_region=1

BUT you don t want that fluid or any fluid at that temperature in computers blocks or rads.

 

There s 2 solutions to this problem,

A water-water heat exchanger, separating interior fluid from exterior one,

or

A second set of rad inside to serve as central heating for the house in the winter.

 

(with pics)

or

 

The fans will also be a problem since the noctua fans they want to use are only rated IP52, it s only good for 15 degree dripping water, not rly rainfall like they need if they leave the radiator bare, they would need to make a kind of enclosure to use these fans.

 

Or maybe if they have a shed/garage... they could put the rads in there with the pumps and avoid lots of problems this way...