Why do SandForce SSD controllers have a bad reputation?

[TheProfosist]

Also with all the recommendations of the MX100 now? What happened to the M500 and M550?

[Askew]

Also with all the recommendations of the MX100 now? What happened to the M500 and M550?

 

I've read into their line a bit now, the MX100 is to replace the M500 line, the M550 line will continue as their high end line and if you want higher than 512GB from them it's M550 flavour as the MX100 only goes to 512GB, there is no 1TB MX100.

 

The MX100 uses the same controller as the M500 line, but the 256GB and 512GB versions use Crucial's new 16nm NAND, the write performance scales quite heaviy between the drives in favour of the 512GB model.

 

The 128GB MX100 uses the same 20nm NAND as the M500.

[hojnikb]

I've read into their line a bit now, the MX100 is to replace the M500 line, the M550 line will continue as their high end line and if you want higher than 512GB from them it's M550 flavour as the MX100 only goes to 512GB, there is no 1TB MX100.

 

The MX100 uses the same controller as the M500 line, but the 256GB and 512GB versions use Crucial's new 16nm NAND, the write performance scales quite heaviy between the drives in favour of the 512GB model.

 

The 128GB MX100 uses the same 20nm NAND as the M500.

Actually, it uses the same controller as m550

[TheProfosist]

I've read into their line a bit now, the MX100 is to replace the M500 line, the M550 line will continue as their high end line and if you want higher than 512GB from them it's M550 flavour as the MX100 only goes to 512GB, there is no 1TB MX100.

 

The MX100 uses the same controller as the M500 line, but the 256GB and 512GB versions use Crucial's new 16nm NAND, the write performance scales quite heaviy between the drives in favour of the 512GB model.

 

The 128GB MX100 uses the same 20nm NAND as the M500.

Ok I gotcha so its the cheapest/lowest low end drive they offer. The M550 in my mind is really more going after the 840 EVO. Basically the lowest end drive that isnt complete shit and has a good brand and tech inside.

[Askew]

Actually, it uses the same controller as m550

 

gah fuck I remembered most of it right    I think I've had information overload on SSDs today I've consumed a lot of information since I ordered the MX100.

 

I will educate myself better in the coming days, from what I have learned today I can appreciate sustained write speed of uncompressible data much more than a rapid start that drops away quickly.

[hojnikb]

@hojnikb you seem to hate anything that might use atrick or two. I personally dont like it for my uses but the average consumer buying a entry level SSD actually benefits.

 

Yeah, i hate those tricks, because they are putting competing drives in a bad spot, because they are advertising high reads and writes. And your typical buyer doesn't look for anything else other than sequential speeds, hence everyone buys EVOs. And Samsung being a big brand helps a lot just aswell.

 

On the other hand there is better alternatives, that are cheaper and faster, but don't employ cheap tricks to fool the buyer.

Sorta like sandforce, that advertised insane speeds at the time (550/500 even on lowest capacity) even though they used the crapiest flash.

[hojnikb]

Ok I gotcha so its the cheapest/lowest low end drive they offer. The M550 in my mind is really more going after the 840 EVO. Basically the lowest end drive that isnt complete shit and has a good brand and tech inside.

So you're implying that mx100 and m500 are complete shit ?

[Wiff]

Yeah, i hate those tricks, because they are putting competing drives in a bad spot, because they are advertising high reads and writes. And your typical buyer doesn't look for anything else other than sequential speeds, hence everyone buys EVOs. And Samsung being a big brand helps a lot just aswell.

 

On the other hand there is better alternatives, that are cheaper and faster, but don't employ cheap tricks to fool the buyer.

Sorta like sandforce, that advertised insane speeds at the time (550/500 even on lowest capacity) even though they used the crapiest flash.

samsung has better sequential and random transfer rates than the mx100. The m500 480GB is slower than the 240GB m500...lol

[Askew]

To be honest the whole IOPS/ peakwrite/reads remind me much of monitor vendors writing those ridiculous dynamic contrast ratio numbers on the box, when the real meat of the specification like display latency and real pixel response times are hidden behind the timings when overdriven by clever software, both things will be turned off immediately by me when I power up the display.

 

So yeah, I am now comparing the numbers on the SSD box to those of monitors because they are playing into the uneducated man's love of big numbers.

[hojnikb]

samsung has better sequential and random transfer rates than the mx100. The m500 480GB is slower than the 240GB m500...lol

No it doesnt have.

MX100 actually destroys the EVO in sequential writes.

[hojnikb]

To be honest the whole IOPS/ peakwrite/reads remind me much of monitor vendors writing those ridiculous dynamic contrast ratio numbers on the box, when the real meat of the specification like display latency and real pixel response times are hidden behind the timings when overdriven by clever software, both things will be turned off immediately by me when I power up the display.

 

So yeah, I am now comparing the numbers on the SSD box to those of monitors because they are playing into the uneducated man's love of big numbers.

 

Exactly. Those numbers are pretty meaningless at the end of the day, because pretty much all of the drives are soo fast, that you won't notice the difference. Thats why you go with the cheapest reliable option. And right now crucial offerings are just that.

[Wiff]

No it doesnt have.

MX100 actually destroys the EVO in sequential writes.

writes are useless, even if they were as slow as on an Hdd it is still sufficient, since you wont be saving e.g. your raw gameplay videos on it

[Askew]

writes are useless, even if they were as slow as on an Hdd it is still sufficient, since you wont be saving e.g. your raw gameplay videos on it

 

capturing raw gameplay and other video work ranks among the top uses of SSDs and SSD RAIDs as even the quicker 7200rpm spinners can't keep up with it.

[Wiff]

Exactly. Those numbers are pretty meaningless at the end of the day, because pretty much all of the drives are soo fast, that you won't notice the difference. Thats why you go with the cheapest reliable option. And right now crucial offerings are just that.

mx100 240GB costs 107€ and 840 evo 250GB is 110€ + the rapid feature of the samsung is nice too

[hojnikb]

writes are useless, even if they were as slow as on an Hdd it is still sufficient, since you wont be saving e.g. your raw gameplay videos on it

And whats your point ?

Both drives cap read speeds even on lowest capacity.

[Wiff]

capturing raw gameplay and other video work ranks among the top uses of SSDs and SSD RAIDs as even the quicker 7200rpm spinners can't keep up with it.

lol, your ssd wont last long doe

[Askew]

And whats your point ?

Both drives cap read speeds even on lowest capacity.

 

Yeah I watched the pcper video about these drives and they said reads are as fast as SATA3 can go on most good SSDs now.

[hojnikb]

mx100 240GB costs 107€ and 840 evo 250GB is 110€ + the rapid feature of the samsung is nice too

Actually evo is 104€, while mx100 is 8GB larger and 83€. So thats 21€ difference in favor of a better drive ?

Tell me again how EVO is a good buy ?

[Askew]

lol, your ssd wont last long doe

 

True indeed, but even this MX100 can do 70GB/day for 3 years, so in a RAID scenario I could make that 140 or more for 3 years, or 280 18 months, or 420 or more for just a year depending on the number of drives.

 

For the performance it isn't so bad given the very low prices and you can render onto a mechanical drive to free space after a capture session.

 

Better drives can obviously take more TB in the life so it goes up, personally I wouldn't buy MX100s for this task but it's feasible because they are so cheap, and of course those are only warranty numbers, in the real world they will most likely go for longer.

[hojnikb]

lol, your ssd wont last long doe

 

 Yes it will. You will need to hammer your ssd for a long time, untill it shows any signs of degradation

http://techreport.com/review/26523/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-casualties-on-the-way-to-a-petabyte

 

And EVO is likely to die first, since its using inferior TLC flash.

[hojnikb]

True, but even this MX100 can do 70GB/day for 3 years, so in a RAID scenario I could make that 140 or more for 3 years, or 280 18 months, or 420 or more for just a year depending on the number of drives.

 

For the performance it isn't so bad given the very low prices and you can render onto a mechanical drive to free space after a capture session.

That 70gig per day is a made up number for warranty purposes. Every decent MLC drive, that is atleast 256gig, will easily last 1PB or more. Thats like 1TB of write each day for the next 3 years.

[Wiff]

True indeed, but even this MX100 can do 70GB/day for 3 years, so in a RAID scenario I could make that 140 or more for 3 years, or 280 18 months, or 420 or more for just a year depending on the number of drives.

For the performance it isn't so bad given the very low prices and you can render onto a mechanical drive to free space after a capture session. I am only recording to a HDD, maybe I want to sell a Ssd in 2 years or so, then the price is higher if I dont have done much writing

Better drives can take more TB in the life so it goes up, personally I wouldn't but MX100s for this task but it's feasible because they are so cheap, and of course those are only warranty numbers, in the real world they will most likely go for longer.

maybe I want to sell it in 2 years

[TheProfosist]

So you're implying that mx100 and m500 are complete shit ?

No the lowest good quality budget SSD. The ones below it would be the ones that are complete shit.

[Askew]

That 70gig per day is a made up number for warranty purposes. Every decent MLC drive, that is atleast 256gig, will easily last 1PB or more. Thats like 1TB of write each day for the next 3 years.

 

We will see how long I can run my MX100 then, it arrives on Wednesday and from then the clock begins ticking, I'm using it as an OS drive plus a few apps I'd like more responsiveness on so it will probably outlive this PC.

 

The drive will probably never be over 200GB data.

[hojnikb]

No the lowest good quality budget SSD. The ones below it would be the ones that are complete shit.

Same could be said for the EVO, since its not _that_ faster than MX100 (in lots of corners its actually slower).