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792p - "Next-gen" Consoles Vs PC - WTF?

Hah "next gen consoles" my ass, going to get some popcorn to watch angry console users attempt to find logic.

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-contradictions-

 

My response to all of that, is what I posted before your banter:

 

 

Do not assume that you are them unless you can actually be in their shoes.

 

Again, you need to see the general demographic of console gamers for what it is, before making bold claims like this.

 

 

You posts implies that you understand a lot about the console ecosystem. If that is so, I would like you to answer these very simple questions:

 

1) What is a RTOS (real-time operating system), and how is it different from the standard UNIX kernel?

 

2) What are the key differentiating factors between the CISC and RISC architectures?

 

3) What is the overall engineering cost for providing a custom hardware build out of the gate?

 

4) What is the definition of a computer?

 

5) What are the needs of a casual gamer, and how does it compare to those of a core gamer?

 

 

Unless you can properly answer the above questions, your "NEXT GEN SUKZORZ" argument holds no ground. It shows me that you have very little understanding of the console system, as well as the console market, and you are simply pulling information out of your rear end. This entire dilemma is a lot more complex than you think it is.

 

inb4 you say "I don't need to know about a product to complain about it!". Many other members have used this claim in other discussions. Many of their arguments fell flat as a result of this claim.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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My response to all of that, is what I posted before your banter:

 

 

 

 

 

You posts implies that you understand a lot about the console ecosystem. If that is so, I would like you to answer these very simple questions:

-snip-

Stop dodging when I already destroyed all your sorry excuse for arguments.

You had no idea(or conveniently ignored to better present your "argument") that the bashing is mutual.

You even admitted that you didn't pay attention to CURRENT GEN console(which is the problem here) because you don't care.

You are not bullshitting your way out of this one.

I'm not going to bother answering your questions because any shmuck like you can google a few keywords and click first result.

Core/Casual gamers? Lol please tell me how you think that is relevant.

Do tell how much RTOS and CISC is relevant in making console hardware perform up to par with midend PC(which are plenty responsive and didn't need to save memory anyway)?

You are just here to try to be that hipster who thought it was cool to be okay with consoles holding games hostage to gain sales.

Anyone who has a sister hates the fact that his sister isn't Kasugano Sora.
Anyone who does not have a sister hates the fact that Kasugano Sora isn't his sister.
I'm not insulting anyone; I'm just being condescending. There is a difference, you see...

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My response to all of that, is what I posted before your banter:

You posts implies that you understand a lot about the console ecosystem. If that is so, I would like you to answer these very simple questions:

1) What is a RTOS (real-time operating system), and how is it different from the standard UNIX kernel?

2) What are the key differentiating factors between the CISC and RISC architectures?

3) What is the overall engineering cost for providing a custom hardware build out of the gate?

4) What is the definition of a computer?

5) What are the needs of a casual gamer, and how does it compare to those of a core gamer?

Unless you can properly answer the above questions, your "NEXT GEN SUKZORZ" argument holds no ground. It shows me that you have very little understanding of the console system, as well as the console market, and you are simply pulling information out of your rear end. This entire dilemma is a lot more complex than you think it is.

inb4 you say "I don't need to know about a product to complain about it!". Many other members have used this claim in other discussions. Many of their arguments fell flat as a result of this claim.

First of all, let's make one thing clear : I find the whole master race thing completely ridiculous and I am not trying to defend that at all.

With that out of the way, I ask myself, how do your questions matter in any way to the whole argument? To the end user, such questions are entirely irrelevant.

Yes, consoles are in another league compared to gaming pcs. Their price reflects that. However, most of the hate and trolling stems from the fact that this generation of consoles is decidedly underwhelming compared to the last in relative performance.

Another thing is broken promises - we were promised full HD gaming experience. That was not delivered, even 1 year after launch. Soon, Intel is releasing Broadwell and shortly thereafter Skylake which will take low to mid teir gaming to a new level, if Intel is to be believed - and that is meddling in the territory of consoles.

 

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Big thanks to Damikiller37 for making me an awesome Intel 4004 out of trixels!

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First of all, let's make one thing clear : I find the whole master race thing completely ridiculous and I am not trying to defend that at all.

With that out of the way, I ask myself, how do your questions matter in any way to the whole argument? To the end user, such questions are entirely irrelevant.

Yes, consoles are in another league compared to gaming pcs. Their price reflects that. However, most of the hate and trolling stems from the fact that this generation of consoles is decidedly underwhelming compared to the last in relative performance.

Another thing is broken promises - we were promised full HD gaming experience. That was not delivered, even 1 year after launch. Soon, Intel is releasing Broadwell and shortly thereafter Skylake which will take low to mid teir gaming to a new level, if Intel is to be believed - and that is meddling in the territory of consoles.

Well I think you summed up the video pretty well

I hate this whole console/PC is best.

As GAMERS it shouldn't matter what it looks like or what it is on, the game should matter the most, story, playability and the immersion is what we should strive for all of which has been lacking for years in games.

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-ragesnip-

 

First, there is one key difference between us: I was being polite, constructive, and meaningful, while you are rude, running in circles, and acting like a child.

If you want to bring your side of the point, at least try to follow my example here.

 

The only thing you have "destroyed" is your own credibility, and you have destroyed that completely, and then some.

 

Second, my questions require a lot more than a mere google search. It requires years of study and research to get good footing on how they work. Your claim, once again, shows how little you understand about the technological ecosystems, let alone the console type.

 

I am going to steal a quote from Builder here:

 

We need to drop the segregationist attitude about different platforms, brands, and ways of playing games, that's all. It's all tech. This isn't LinusWindowsTips or LinusPCTips or LinusMasterRaceTips. It's LinusTechTips, for crying out loud.

 

This means that we talk about ALL of the tech, and that includes consoles, Apple products, and the mobile platform. You don't like that? Well, it looks like you are in the wrong forum to begin with.

 

If you want to keep dragging your feet for the sake of dragging your feet, then that is fine by me. But you have to continue this petty argument with Victorious Secret, because I am done. I have no interest in arguing against keyboard warriors who cannot even keep their attitude in good shape.

 

 

First of all, let's make one thing clear : I find the whole master race thing completely ridiculous and I am not trying to defend that at all.

With that out of the way, I ask myself, how do your questions matter in any way to the whole argument? To the end user, such questions are entirely irrelevant.

Yes, consoles are in another league compared to gaming pcs. Their price reflects that. However, most of the hate and trolling stems from the fact that this generation of consoles is decidedly underwhelming compared to the last in relative performance.

Another thing is broken promises - we were promised full HD gaming experience. That was not delivered, even 1 year after launch. Soon, Intel is releasing Broadwell and shortly thereafter Skylake which will take low to mid teir gaming to a new level, if Intel is to be believed - and that is meddling in the territory of consoles.

 

You have made a good argument, so let me answer your questions:

 

Yes, those questions are pointless to the end users, but that was the very reason I asked those questions. If you are going to criticize something, you need good technical ground to back yourself up. If you are going to argue about something not being right, while dismissing some of the key factors in the issue, then you lose merits for the complaint. In a legal court case, you would be verbally harassed by the judge for doing that.

 

"decidedly underwhelming" Is where my issue lies. What decides whether it is underwhelming or not? You said for yourself that the consoles are in a different league to the PCs, so it has no reason to cater solely to the higher specifications, when it has other concerns in regards to the construction of the consoles (which I have listed in the questions above). If we look at the historical relation between the console and PC specifications and gaming performance, the console is roughly a sinusoidal wave in respect to the PC. It is not a pure sine function, but it has always been this way for a very long time.

"full HD gaming experience" is subjective. For most people, 720P is enough to qualify as "full HD", and remember that console gamers usually play on HDTVs, where resolution and PPI does not matter as much as it does on a monitor.

 

As for the Intel side of things, this is good. Consoles push the PC hardware to "crap" on the consoles (they also have other venues of competition), but without the PCs, we would not have seen any hardware progress on the consoles. We would have been suck in the 8-bit era if the PC technology has not evolved.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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This place is promoting a "one track" state of mind more and more. The mods are allowing repeated instigators to stay and keep rail roading threads, and yes its our job to not rise to their inflammatory posts but they have no reason to be so inflammatory in the first place. 

 

A place about tech is so hostile against all forms of tech, its a litter disappointing. Its more disappointing that some people actually hate the consoles, or Apple, or Samsung, or whatever so much that they need to express themselves in every post, all the time. 

 

Just sad. 

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This place is promoting a "one track" state of mind more and more. The mods are allowing repeated instigators to stay and keep rail roading threads, and yes its our job to not rise to their inflammatory posts but they have no reason to be so inflammatory in the first place. 

 

A place about tech is so hostile against all forms of tech, its a litter disappointing. Its more disappointing that some people actually hate the consoles, or Apple, or Samsung, or whatever so much that they need to express themselves in every post, all the time. 

 

Just sad. 

 

This is why i suggested a blacklist system, but unfortunately, it is not a viable mechanism.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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Ohh. 720p to 792p and 30fps. SEVEN YEARS OF DEVOLEPMENT (or more) and still not even 1080p and 60 fps. Ps2 to ps3 was crazy how big the difference was and now...consoles may die as soon as possible if no revolution comes.

 

You can't seriously deny the other differences in visuals between last gen and current gen. Take a look at GTA V, or any of the multiplatform games. Developers are focusing on other aspects of visuals than resolution. 

 

My response to all of that, is what I posted before your banter:

 

 

 

 

 

You posts implies that you understand a lot about the console ecosystem. If that is so, I would like you to answer these very simple questions:

 

1) What is a RTOS (real-time operating system), and how is it different from the standard UNIX kernel?

 

2) What are the key differentiating factors between the CISC and RISC architectures?

 

3) What is the overall engineering cost for providing a custom hardware build out of the gate?

 

4) What is the definition of a computer?

 

5) What are the needs of a casual gamer, and how does it compare to those of a core gamer?

 

 

Unless you can properly answer the above questions, your "NEXT GEN SUKZORZ" argument holds no ground. It shows me that you have very little understanding of the console system, as well as the console market, and you are simply pulling information out of your rear end. This entire dilemma is a lot more complex than you think it is.

 

inb4 you say "I don't need to know about a product to complain about it!". Many other members have used this claim in other discussions. Many of their arguments fell flat as a result of this claim.

 

I agree with your point, but not how you make them, if that makes any sense. I'll admit, I need to educate myself regarding some of the first points you made, but like I mentioned in another discussion with you, the gist of that argument (regarding RTOS and UNIX) is that console devs (or their games) can make better use of the hardware. 

 

I see that as the 'theory' behind the whole thing, and Linus's video, among other things, the 'results' of that theory. What I mean by that is this; despite consoles having an RTOS, it seems to make little difference in actual practice.

 

For instance, a PS4's GPU is said to be slotted between a 7850 and a 7870 in performance. If you take a look at benchmarks of them, you'll see they play watchdogs at about 1080P 30FPS average, at ultra settings, which is the same as a PS4. It's hardly scientific, but I think it gets the point I wanted to make across.

 

Now, I'm not bashing consoles, and I take back what I said previously about them. You were right. What I dislike is the marketing surrounding consoles, and the hype.

Tea, Metal, and poorly written code.

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I agree with your point, but not how you make them, if that makes any sense. I'll admit, I need to educate myself regarding some of the first points you made, but like I mentioned in another discussion with you, the gist of that argument (regarding RTOS and UNIX) is that console devs (or their games) can make better use of the hardware. 

 

I see that as the 'theory' behind the whole thing, and Linus's video, among other things, the 'results' of that theory. What I mean by that is this; despite consoles having an RTOS, it seems to make little difference in actual practice.

 

For instance, a PS4's GPU is said to be slotted between a 7850 and a 7870 in performance. If you take a look at benchmarks of them, you'll see they play watchdogs at about 1080P 30FPS average, at ultra settings, which is the same as a PS4. It's hardly scientific, but I think it gets the point I wanted to make across.

 

Now, I'm not bashing consoles, and I take back what I said previously about them. You were right. What I dislike is the marketing surrounding consoles, and the hype.

 

That is a very respectable argument that you have presented, just like last time.

 

However, I cannot say the same for the person I was replying to.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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First, there is one key difference between us: I was being polite, constructive, and meaningful, while you are rude, running in circles, and acting like a child.

If you want to bring your side of the point, at least try to follow my example here.

 

The only thing you have "destroyed" is your own credibility, and you have destroyed that completely, and then some.

 

Second, my questions require a lot more than a mere google search. It requires years of study and research to get good footing on how they work. Your claim, once again, shows how little you understand about the technological ecosystems, let alone the console type.

 

I am going to steal a quote from Builder here:

 

 

This means that we talk about ALL of the tech, and that includes consoles, Apple products, and the mobile platform. You don't like that? Well, it looks like you are in the wrong forum to begin with.

 

If you want to keep dragging your feet for the sake of dragging your feet, then that is fine by me. But you have to continue this petty argument with Victorious Secret, because I am done. I have no interest in arguing against keyboard warriors who cannot even keep their attitude in good shape.

The key difference here is that I actually play console games AND PC games; and current generation potatoes utterly disappointed me. And that if this was last generation of consoles; you would actually have some argument.

After seeing the bullshit you post...politeness isn't even an afterthought when replying to your posts.

I destroy your argument but your run around posting irrelevant comments/questions in attempt to bring thread off-topic enough for everyone to miss how much you have failed.

You still make bullshit claims without any explanation.

Please, show your knowledge or ANY proof you have any, at all.

Your example is terrible. Being polite while posting bullshit isn't going to make your post any credible.

You can't come up with good reason for console THIS generation.

You make excuses FOR consoles for not being able to do true 1080p/60fps standard on most games.

Be gone, console shill. You will spread no peasantry here.

 

This place is promoting a "one track" state of mind more and more. The mods are allowing repeated instigators to stay and keep rail roading threads, and yes its our job to not rise to their inflammatory posts but they have no reason to be so inflammatory in the first place. 

 

A place about tech is so hostile against all forms of tech, its a litter disappointing. Its more disappointing that some people actually hate the consoles, or Apple, or Samsung, or whatever so much that they need to express themselves in every post, all the time. 

 

Just sad.

Lots of hate for Apple is undeserved, yes.

But that does not mean Apple is completely innocent.

Same with consoles; before this one, there wasn't that much ACTUAL facts about how PC is objectively superior because the platform was so different. Not so much anymore.

You don't have a job here; it is very arrogant of you to assume you can do job for moderators.

This place IS indeed about tech; just not the retarded ones(console and, to a lesser degree, apple).

Anyone who has a sister hates the fact that his sister isn't Kasugano Sora.
Anyone who does not have a sister hates the fact that Kasugano Sora isn't his sister.
I'm not insulting anyone; I'm just being condescending. There is a difference, you see...

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-more ragesnip-

 

You should take a read at the the following:

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/184566-consoles-remain-king/page-5

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/204131-blizzard-forces-200mb-of-bloatware-to-start-up-games/page-7

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/95599-linus-tech-tips-forum-code-of-conduct/

 

And let me offer you some psychology 101:

 

When you want to deliver a point, formality and politeness goes a long way. People are willing to accept the statements from somebody who is nice but wrong. Why? Because he is nice about it. If they do not agree, they bring their side of the discussion in an equally nice manner. On the other hand, when a person shouts and screams, and throws insults at people who disagree with him, then it will go nowhere at all. People will see him as a short-tempered brat and ignore such person, completely disregarding the possibility that he may be correct. Being wise does not solely rely on intellect; it is also grounded on your personality and approach to any problem. Soft skills are just as important as hard skills, and that is a key point to drive home in respect to employment.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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You should take a read at the the following:

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/184566-consoles-remain-king/page-5

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/204131-blizzard-forces-200mb-of-bloatware-to-start-up-games/page-7

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/95599-linus-tech-tips-forum-code-of-conduct/

 

And let me offer you some psychology 101:

 

When you want to deliver a point, formality and politeness goes a long way. People are willing to accept the statements from somebody who is nice but wrong. Why? Because he is nice about it. If they do not agree, they bring their side of the discussion in an equally nice manner. On the other hand, when a person shouts and screams, and throws insults at people who disagree with him, then it will go nowhere at all. People will see him as a short-tempered brat and ignore such person, completely disregarding the possibility that he may be correct. Being wise does not solely rely on intellect; it is also grounded on your personality and approach to any problem. Soft skills are just as important as hard skills, and that is a key point to drive home in respect to employment.

You don't deserve anything if all you have left is complaint about politeness.

Psychology 101: when your arguments have been destroyed, and you go offtopic instead of writing up a proper response; people already stopped believing your words have any credibility.

Anyone who has a sister hates the fact that his sister isn't Kasugano Sora.
Anyone who does not have a sister hates the fact that Kasugano Sora isn't his sister.
I'm not insulting anyone; I'm just being condescending. There is a difference, you see...

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-meaningless insults-

 

With that level of rudeness and arrogance, you would feel right at home with 4Chan.

 

In here, people have little to no respect for the needlessly hostile, and fight fire with fire if need be. I have not done so up to now, so consider yourself extremely lucky. 

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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With that level of rudeness and arrogance, you would feel right at home with 4Chan.

 

In here, people have little to no respect for the needlessly hostile, and fight fire with fire if need be. I have not done so up to now, co consider yourself extremely lucky.

Respect is earned.

You didn't earn it.

Feel free to continue.

Then I would have to point out that you were wrong in the first place; because you were under the assumption that this is just one-sided PC gamer/elitist bashing innocent console players for no reason.

Anyone who has a sister hates the fact that his sister isn't Kasugano Sora.
Anyone who does not have a sister hates the fact that Kasugano Sora isn't his sister.
I'm not insulting anyone; I'm just being condescending. There is a difference, you see...

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Respect is earned.

You didn't earn it.

 

I have certainly earned my respect with many people; look back at this very thread, and see for yourself.

 

You on the other hand, have some serious work to do to earn such respect.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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I have certainly earned my respect with many people; look back at this very thread, and see for yourself.

 

You on the other hand, have some serious work to do to earn such respect.

I don't want it in first place(when it became obvious you are a peasant and when I determined that enough insults in the post is easier for you to understand).

Respect from you, peasant, means nothing.

If you have nothing more to add other than whining about how butthurt you are from some light internet insults...you certainly are not going to be constructive...

Fact is that your posts are not constructive, you were not actually being respectful(trying to play the "you don't know sh*t about console" card backfired on you), and your posts were not meaningful...they were mostly irrelevant and lately completely OFFtopic.

Anyone who has a sister hates the fact that his sister isn't Kasugano Sora.
Anyone who does not have a sister hates the fact that Kasugano Sora isn't his sister.
I'm not insulting anyone; I'm just being condescending. There is a difference, you see...

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I don't need it in first place(when it became obvious you are a peasant and when I determined that enough insults in the post is easier for you to understand).

Respect from you, peasant, means nothing.

 

Suit yourself then. Now get lost, as you have provided absolutely no contribution to this discussion.

 

Calling me a "peasant" will not magically turn the discussion in your favour. You have already lost this argument at your first post towards me. You have been dragging your feet up to now, and to most people here, this is as clear as day.

 

EDIT: I see that you have been adding in after-post comments to defend yourself... sorry, but that is not going to help you. You have factually lost this debate. Suck it up, deal with it, and move on.

Read the community standards; it's like a guide on how to not be a moron.

 

Gerdauf's Law: Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

Remember, calling facts opinions does not ever make the facts opinions, no matter what nonsense you pull.

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Suit yourself then. Now get lost, as you have provided absolutely no contribution to this discussion.

 

Calling me a "peasant" will not magically turn the discussion in your favour. You have already lost this argument at your first post towards me. You have been dragging you feet up to now, and to most people here, this is as clear as day.

I contributed to this discussion by correcting you on your most fundamental mistake which you based all your argument on.

I'm not calling you a peasant to insult you; I'm just calling you by what you are defined as.

Too bad you never had an argument.

Dragging feet? Speak for yourself.

Anyone who has a sister hates the fact that his sister isn't Kasugano Sora.
Anyone who does not have a sister hates the fact that Kasugano Sora isn't his sister.
I'm not insulting anyone; I'm just being condescending. There is a difference, you see...

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