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Help with new ($1000) ($US) PC (No Graphics Card)

Why do you think people spend money on asthetics / silence ? Because they value the importance of it.

I'm pretty sure nobody wants a wind tunnel next to them when gaming. Nor would they want to be constantly eyeballing that blue color ram and gold color gpu on a red black motherboard. If they went ahead and chose the cheapest and most value per performance part.

Yes sometimes aesthetics don't matter if you're building in a system with no window etc.

In that sense yes, feel free to go whichever route you like.

STILL, what you are basically doing is like undercutting the rest of your system for maybe 60fps vs 75fps in maybe 10% of games at the highest settings?

Would you be able to notice that difference? You could always take a notch off your settings on the weaker gpu to match that 75fps anyway.

 

My point is :

Why skimp on certain parts for something you might not even need? Sure its good to have the best gpu available but if a 770 meets his needs why opt for a 780 so forcefully?

You are basically saying : " No, buy the 780. You are doing it wrong. Buy the 780 "

I'd rather place my faith on more quality / well regarded parts. Even if its that bit more expensive, at least in my mind you can rest easy and know that you have a good system.

.....

You are seriously daft.

 

      None of those parts are considered overly loud or regarded poorly. It would be different if the parts I were recommending were all getting horrible reviews and failing left and right, but they are not.  They are popular, they are being used in all levels and budgets of builds and they perform well.  Not the best, but very well.  I would not consider any of those component picks as "under cutting" your system.  GPU impacts performance the most, if you skimp out on that part when you have such a large budget, that is the area where the term under-cutting can be applied.

 

     I have an open side panel with a CX600M and Hyper 212 EVO in push/pull.  The only thing I hear is the 212 EVO, barely, and it is at 1200rpm all the time, 60%.  I also have 5x Cougar Vortex 120mm PWMs running at 1200rpms.  The only thing I hear is the Hyper 212 EVO, and its not that noticeable.  If he said he valued silence and aesthetics above all else, I would adjust my build accordingly, but most people want the best performing computer that shows up tangibly on their screen without costing them an arm and a leg.

 

     You think the Asus Z87-A is a bad and poorly regarded part??  Its certainly not great to look at, but it performs amazingly.  Also, the majority of the time you are looking at the screen and not the inside of your PC, especially if it is on the ground or in a closed panel system.  The Cooler Master 212 EVO is easily the most recommended CPU cooler because it is bad quality and isn't held in high regard-clearly.  The CX600M isn't top of the line by any means, but it is very popular and works very well without being loud.

    The PNY SSD isn't the highest regarded part, but if anything isn't going to be used for large file transfers that often.  Yes, the SSD is used every single day for day-to-day operations. Those rated speeds that everyone seems to care so much about are for large data transfers, which probably won't be done with regularity.  The parts are under warranty for the same length of time and the specifications for the two SSDs are trading top seat depending on the type of task.  Take a look at the specs of the $60 PNY and the $85 Samsung. The Random Read Speed is probably the most important because that is the "day-to-day tasks" speed.  Ya, the Samsung wins, but not by much, certainly not enough to justify an additional $25-$30.  The Samsung even loses out to the PNY in some areas.

     RAM is so interchangeable that the color is almost a non-issue because there are so many options at the same price with the same specs. I chose the 1866Mhz over the 1600Mhz  because YOU seem to value the 1866Mhz so highly even though the benchmarks show a negligible difference between the two for gaming.  I found the 1866Mhz RAM for the same price as the 1600Mhz RAM, thats why I picked it.  Color? Really?  You are grasping at straws here.

  

     You consider a more powerful GPU something you might not even need?  Perhaps you are new to the technology scene, but technology and games are becoming more and more demanding at an exponential rate.  Even the 780 can't handle every single game at the highest possible settings, Metro:LL and Crysis3 come to mind, I'm sure there are more.  If there are already games that can't run at max settings for the 780 that were released in 2013, I wonder what games will be like that are released this and the following years?  Spoiler alert: MORE DEMANDING!  I realize that the term "future-proofing" is frowned upon, but the vast majority of people go into a PC build with the presumption of trying to get their build to last as long as possible before needing to upgrade.

    Again, the GPU is far and away the most important, and most expensive component of your build.  Your SSD, and PSU are very interchangeable and comparatively inexpensive parts.  Maxing out on your GPU to give you the best possible performance for your budget is something I will recommend 90% of the time unless stated by the OP otherwise.  Feel free to ask the countless people I have helped on this forum squeezing out the most performance for their money.  I haven't gotten a single complaint and most of the time, I get thank you's in the form of "I didn't think this powerful of a GPU was possible with my budget."

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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.....

You are seriously daft.

 

      None of those parts are considered overly loud or regarded poorly. It would be different if the parts I were recommending were all getting horrible reviews and failing left and right, but they are not.  They are popular, they are being used in all levels and budgets of builds and they perform well.  Not the best, but very well.  I would not consider any of those component picks as "under cutting" your system.  GPU impacts performance the most, if you skimp out on that part when you have such a large budget, that is the area where the term under-cutting can be applied.

 

     I have an open side panel with a CX600M and Hyper 212 EVO in push/pull.  The only thing I hear is the 212 EVO, barely, and it is at 1200rpm all the time, 60%.  I also have 5x Cougar Vortex 120mm PWMs running at 1200rpms.  The only thing I hear is the Hyper 212 EVO, and its not that noticeable.  If he said he valued silence and aesthetics above all else, I would adjust my build accordingly, but most people want the best performing computer that shows up tangibly on their screen without costing them an arm and a leg.

 

     You think the Asus Z87-A is a bad and poorly regarded part??  Its certainly not great to look at, but it performs amazingly.  Also, the majority of the time you are looking at the screen and not the inside of your PC, especially if it is on the ground or in a closed panel system.  The Cooler Master 212 EVO is easily the most recommended CPU cooler because it is bad quality and isn't held in high regard-clearly.  The CX600M isn't top of the line by any means, but it is very popular and works very well without being loud.

    The PNY SSD isn't the highest regarded part, but if anything isn't going to be used for large file transfers that often.  Yes, the SSD is used every single day for day-to-day operations. Those rated speeds that everyone seems to care so much about are for large data transfers, which probably won't be done with regularity.  The parts are under warranty for the same length of time and the specifications for the two SSDs are trading top seat depending on the type of task.  Take a look at the specs of the $60 PNY and the $85 Samsung. The Random Read Speed is probably the most important because that is the "day-to-day tasks" speed.  Ya, the Samsung wins, but not by much, certainly not enough to justify an additional $25-$30.  The Samsung even loses out to the PNY in some areas.

     RAM is so interchangeable that the color is almost a non-issue because there are so many options at the same price with the same specs. I chose the 1866Mhz over the 1600Mhz  because YOU seem to value the 1866Mhz so highly even though the benchmarks show a negligible difference between the two for gaming.  I found the 1866Mhz RAM for the same price as the 1600Mhz RAM, thats why I picked it.  Color? Really?  You are grasping at straws here.

  

     You consider a more powerful GPU something you might not even need?  Perhaps you are new to the technology scene, but technology and games are becoming more and more demanding at an exponential rate.  Even the 780 can't handle every single game at the highest possible settings, Metro:LL and Crysis3 come to mind, I'm sure there are more.  If there are already games that can't run at max settings for the 780 that were released in 2013, I wonder what games will be like that are released this year?  Spoiler alert: MORE DEMANDING!  I realize that the term "future-proofing" is frowned upon, but the vast majority of people go into a PC build with the presumption of trying to get their build to last as long as possible before needing to upgrade.

    Again, the GPU is far and away the most important, and most expensive component of your build.  Your SSD, and PSU are very interchangeable and comparatively inexpensive parts.  Maxing out on your GPU to give you the best possible performance for your budget is something I will recommend 90% of the time unless stated by the OP otherwise.  Feel free to ask the countless people I have helped on this forum squeezing out the most performance for their money.  I haven't gotten a single complaint and most of the time, I get thank you's in the form of "I didn't think this powerful of a GPU was possible with my budget."

apparently you don't read what people post.
Does OP even play those games? No, you sure didn't put in effort to read.
Did I not say a 770 card can run 90% of games fine? Sure some games can't be maxed out or some can't be maxed out with stupidly high fps. is 60fps enough for most people? yes. will most people want to have ultra/insane everything with x99999 aa? No, not everybody.
Sure it may not last another 2 years and run the best AAA titles. Pretty much every card will experience that. 
I don't disagree that the gpu is a very important part of the build. yes but you don't have to FORCE IT UPON PEOPLE
Take a good look at how you are telling people / giving advice to people. I can easily find like 5 topics in 1 minute where you have in a similar fashion, forced your opinion on people.
Like what i mentioned earlier, you are basically telling people this:
 
"OMG 1K BUILD WITH NO 780?? WRONG!! HERE USE THIS 780!! BEST PERFORMANCE PER $$$$$ EVERYTHING ELSE DON'T MATTER!!"
 
Give advice / offer your opinion. Your opinion is your own. Don't force it on people.
 
Your Logic : Anything less than possibly 1.5 ~ 2k in budget = Don't bother with anything other than performance. MORE JIGGAHURTZ
 
EG: I play LOL, Hearthstone, Diablo 3 at 1080p ETC and I want a 1.5k build.
YOU: HERE HAVE A 780 CAUSE MOAR JIGGAHURTZ MOAR BETTER
 
I have said enough. Wasting my time
 
Sorry OP for off topic.

i7-4790k | Asus Z97i-Plus     | Kingston HyperX Fury 16gb | MX100 256gb     | Seidon 120XL | Silverstone SFX 600w Gold | Node 304 White
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apparently you don't read what people post.
Does OP even play those games? No, you sure didn't put in effort to read.
Did I not say a 770 card can run 90% of games fine? Sure some games can't be maxed out or some can't be maxed out with stupidly high fps. is 60fps enough for most people? yes. will most people want to have ultra/insane everything with x99999 aa? No, not everybody.
Sure it may not last another 2 years and run the best AAA titles. Pretty much every card will experience that. 
I don't disagree that the gpu is a very important part of the build. yes but you don't have to FORCE IT UPON PEOPLE
Take a good look at how you are telling people / giving advice to people. I can easily find like 5 topics in 1 minute where you have in a similar fashion, forced your opinion on people.
Like what i mentioned earlier, you are basically telling people this:
 
"OMG 1K BUILD WITH NO 780?? WRONG!! HERE USE THIS 780!! BEST PERFORMANCE PER $$$$$ EVERYTHING ELSE DON'T MATTER!!"
 
Give advice / offer your opinion. Your opinion is your own. Don't force it on people.
 
Your Logic : Anything less than possibly 1.5 ~ 2k in budget = Don't bother with anything other than performance. MORE JIGGAHURTZ
 
EG: I play LOL, Hearthstone, Diablo 3 at 1080p ETC and I want a 1.5k build.
YOU: HERE HAVE A 780 CAUSE MOAR JIGGAHURTZ MOAR BETTER
 
I have said enough. Wasting my time
 
Sorry OP for off topic.

 

     Because someone only plays certain games they will never play a different game ever, seems legit, GTX 750Tis for everyone!  I put in the effort to read, and I also put in the effort to plan for the future and not be so narrow minded as to buy a GPU that is for today and not for tomorrow. He did say he wants expandability, if he buys a GPU that can just handle the games of today, he will be expanding in no time and be spending a lot more money than necessary if he just went for the nicer GPU from the start.

   

     When someone asks for help on a build, I assume from the start, unless stated otherwise, that they want the most performance for the least amount of money.  Perhaps you should have spent more time reading the help I give people.  I may not phrase it in the best way, the phrase I use is "With your budget, anything less than a GTX780 is a failure." If someone has a $1300 budget and is going with a more expensive CPU than GPU ya, I'm going to speak up. It is people with the $1200+ budgets who are allocating funds in incorrect areas, that I say this to.  I sometimes provide several options for the person asking for help to choose from depending on the size of their budget.

     My tact is not all there because I end up repeating the same thing so frequently that I try and get it all out as fast as possible.  I can definitely work on the way I address the people asking for help, improve my bed side manner if you will.  I  end up using that phrase often because it is true.  If they ask for help, wanting the best performance for their money, which is what most sane people want, I am going to recommend a build that allows for the best possible GPU for their budget without neglecting other components so severely that the PC wont work. I don't do builds for people that wont work and I always have the person's best interests in mind.

     If you have a budget of $1000 or less, that is when I urge people to focus on the best possible performance.  It really doesn't matter the size of the budget, I am always going to recommend the best possible performance within the realm of reason.  $1100 is a more realistic number without monitor, peripherals, or OS for that value/performance sweet spot that most people covet.  For budgets $1,200 and over, that is when you can start focusing your attention on 2ndary things like aesthetics, silence, and warranty length after addressing the most performance for your money.  Unless stated by the OP, I will recommend, and continue to always recommend the best performing build unless specified otherwise by the person asking for help.

 

EG: I play LOL, Hearthstone, Diablo 3 at 1080p ETC and I want a 1.5k build

ME:  You can achieve a very powerful computer, more powerful and longer lasting than the one you built, without having to spend $1,500.  If you want to spend your entire budget, here is how you could do it.

 

You have said more than enough, you are embarrassing yourself by acting this way.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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wow, stop please. for the sake of everyone.

 

You are so not getting my point.

 

If someone's needs fall well within the range of a 200 dollar gpu, HE DOES NOT NEED A 300 DOLLAR GPU. It basically becomes a WANT. not a NEED

 

for this case, you don't NEED a 780. you basically WANT a 780 for "future proofness" It may be good performace per dollar wise. But. DO YOU NEED IT?

 

Why drop 100 over dollars more on a gpu you might not fully utillize when you can save that money, sell your current card next year and buy a card that is the current sweetspot for that time? Who knows, maybe in 1 year crysis 4 comes out and anything less than a dual gpu setup draws less than 30 fps? NOBODY KNOWS. 

Or just simply spend it on a larger SSD? (Now don't say there is no point to a larger SSD. There is.)

 

Whenever you consume anything, UTILITY MATTERS.

It's the fundamental of everything related to economics. If you buy the more expensive GPU that gives less utility than spending the money elsewhere which nets greater utility,

YOU ARE NOT BEHAVING RATIONALLY.

Don't spew the same nonsense that performance > everything else. NO. Not for everyone. You simply cannot compare a tangible good VS a non-tangible good. Utility =/= Performance

 

So stop please. Just stop.

I'm not going to argue anymore

i7-4790k | Asus Z97i-Plus     | Kingston HyperX Fury 16gb | MX100 256gb     | Seidon 120XL | Silverstone SFX 600w Gold | Node 304 White
G3258    | Asus Z97i-Plus     | Kingston HyperX Fury 16gb | 4 x 3TB WD Reds | Seidon 120XL | Silverstone SFX 600w Gold | Node 304 Black

i7-965EE | Rampage II Extreme | Kingston HyperX Fury 16gb | CM M2 700w | Sapphire Nitro 380 4GB

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wow, stop please. for the sake of everyone.

 

You are so not getting my point.

 

If someone's needs fall well within the range of a 200 dollar gpu, HE DOES NOT NEED A 300 DOLLAR GPU. It basically becomes a WANT. not a NEED

 

for this case, you don't NEED a 780. you basically WANT a 780 for "future proofness" It may be good performace per dollar wise. But. DO YOU NEED IT?

 

Why drop 100 over dollars more on a gpu you might not fully utillize when you can save that money, sell your current card next year and buy a card that is the current sweetspot for that time? Who knows, maybe in 1 year crysis 4 comes out and anything less than a dual gpu setup draws less than 30 fps? NOBODY KNOWS. 

Or just simply spend it on a larger SSD? (Now don't say there is no point to a larger SSD. There is.)

 

Whenever you consume anything, UTILITY MATTERS.

It's the fundamental of everything related to economics. If you buy the more expensive GPU that gives less utility than spending the money elsewhere which nets greater utility,

YOU ARE NOT BEHAVING RATIONALLY.

Don't spew the same nonsense that performance > everything else. NO. Not for everyone. You simply cannot compare a tangible good VS a non-tangible good. Utility =/= Performance

 

So stop please. Just stop.

I'm not going to argue anymore

Not quoting me?  Whats wrong, you don't want to play anymore?

 

I want you to go back and search through the New Builds and Planning, I probably comment on 50% of them.  Look what people are asking for, specifically this guy that just posted, and I know we both saw it:

 

"So I was just wondering if there are any parts that need replacing like if the power supply needs to be more or less powerful or if any parts are not compatible or if there are any things I can replace to decrease the price or increase performance."

^^ Shocker! He likes my value oriented best performance for price build!

 

"Title says it all really, i want it to be good for expand ability as this is my first ever PC it is pretty important as i will look too upgrade as i go.

Playing games at 1080p at as high graphical settings as possible."

 

"When it comes to technology, I like to look for the best price/performance/aesthetics I can get."

 

"I am a 3d animator + Love Games... So looking For something That could Help me Play Latest Games and is also Future Proof in around 1250$"

 

From just the first page.  The way I present the information to them could definitely use some work, I admit that, but look whose build they tend to go with, I think you will be irate at the results since it doesn't take much to set you off.

 

we really need to stop arguing

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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Not quoting me?  Whats wrong, you don't want to play anymore?

 

I want you to go back and search through the New Builds and Planning, I probably comment on 50% of them.  Look what people are asking for, specifically this guy that just posted, and I know we both saw it:

 

"So I was just wondering if there are any parts that need replacing like if the power supply needs to be more or less powerful or if any parts are not compatible or if there are any things I can replace to decrease the price or increase performance."

^^ Shocker! He likes my value oriented best performance for price build!

 

"Title says it all really, i want it to be good for expand ability as this is my first ever PC it is pretty important as i will look too upgrade as i go.

Playing games at 1080p at as high graphical settings as possible."

 

"I am a 3d animator + Love Games... So looking For something That could Help me Play Latest Games and is also Future Proof in around 1250$"

 

From just the first page.  The way I present the information to them could definitely use some work, I admit that, but look whose build they tend to go with, I think you will be irate at the results since it doesn't take much to set you off.

 

we really need to stop arguing

It isn't an argument if you don't debate my point.

Well sorry for not bothering to quote you. I'm couldn't care less.

 

You should really read what i've said.

i7-4790k | Asus Z97i-Plus     | Kingston HyperX Fury 16gb | MX100 256gb     | Seidon 120XL | Silverstone SFX 600w Gold | Node 304 White
G3258    | Asus Z97i-Plus     | Kingston HyperX Fury 16gb | 4 x 3TB WD Reds | Seidon 120XL | Silverstone SFX 600w Gold | Node 304 Black

i7-965EE | Rampage II Extreme | Kingston HyperX Fury 16gb | CM M2 700w | Sapphire Nitro 380 4GB

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It isn't an argument if you don't debate my point.

Well sorry for not bothering to quote you. I'm couldn't care less.

 

You should really read what i've said.

     I read and understand your point very clearly.  I am able to see all sides of the spectrum, yet you still cannot appreciate the value to performance approach that most people like.  I guess you are in the minority.  Your argument also favors my "utility" way of thinking.  The "inferior" parts I select serve their purpose while eliminating redundancy and excess.  Utility.   I am done talking with you when you cannot form your arguments in a clear, concise, rational and calm manner.  Please, f@$k off kindly so I don't have to talk with you again.  This has gotten way out of hand.

"I genuinely dislike the promulgation of false information, especially to people who are asking for help selecting new parts."

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Since there is still arguing going around I'll just say that when I pick the parts they will probobly be a combination of both value and more expensive quality parts since I do prefer more performance over value in certain areas and this build will be getting more upgrades in the next few months (except dual gpu) might even replace some parts I get here even. This build is just going to be a good base for any additions I add to it later c:

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