Logitech G502, G510s and Razer Tartarus

[jmaster299]

I want to do this review in two parts, First, today, will be my initial impressions from the first 24 hours of use. Then, a week from now, I will update this post with more details since I will have had sufficient time to become accustom to my new hardware. I also want to note that I don't care about anyone's opinion on Mechanical vs Non-Mechanical. The mechanical device on the market that are within my price range simply lack the features I want, or have things I do not want.

I will start off my first impressions by letting you know the hardware I replaced. The keyboard I am replacing is a Logitech G15, which I have had for nearly 6 years. Served me very well and I made extensive use of the LCD display. When choosing a new keyboard I did look at many other options, but as I said before, mechanical keyboards simply lack the features I want and I don't like the flat laptop style keys on some Razer keyboards. Also, the G510s would be familiar for me to use as the main part of the keyboard is exactly the same as the G15 I was replacing. The key size, spacing and placement are identical, but they improved the media and gave add an additional 12 G keys.

The first 24 hours with the G510s has been great so far. The only negative thing I can say so far is the backlighting is simply not bright enough and not as bright as the advertisements make you think it is. Yes they are supposed to help you see the keys in a dark room, but I don't play in a dark room. The lighting, for me, is just about making it looking cool. I only use one small lamp in my room, so it's not all that bright, but the key lighting is very subtle and some of the color choices make the LCD screen look washed out. I wanted to use blue, to match my G502, but that is one of the colors that washes out the LCD screen. I settled on green because it matches my Razer Tartarus and the LCD looks the best when using green. 

Some people may wonder why I am so particular about my keyboard when I am gaming with the Razer Tartarus, the answer is I still want a quality keyboard. Typing on the G510s is significantly better than with the G15, but part of that may have to do with the age of my G15 because some of the keys were becoming hard to press. Yes I did fully clean my G15 on a regular basis. Also, I use the Razer Tartarus for my primary gaming keys, movement, switching weapons, jumping, all the basics. I use the G keys for things like macros. I don't even have to take my hand fully off my gamepad to activate my G keys.

On to my G502 Proteus. I am replacing a Logitech Mx518 that I've had for 9 years. Yes 9 years with the same mouse and it works perfectly today as it did 9 years ago. Over and over again through the years I kept looking at new mice that were being released and every time I couldn't justify the $50-$100+ when I had a mouse that already worked great for me. But when I saw the G502 I was like

When I first saw the 502 I no longer cared that my current mouse worked just fine. There is no other way to describe it than it was love at first sight. The nice, bright, blue G is great and all the buttons are easy to use while in game. The weight is fine for me but to me the center of gravity felt a little too far back so I added a single weight in the very front slot and now it's perfect. My only complaints is I wish the scroll wheel was coated in something. It's metal, so it gives it a nice build quality, but outside the free-spin mode my finger occasionally slides across the surface with out turning the wheel. I am certain that I will get more accustom to it with use, but adding some type of grip to it would have been nice.

Lastly, on to the Razer Tartarus. The Tartarus is simply the latest evolution of what was original the Belkin n52, which I also purchased 9 years ago like my mouse and still own it. I owned or had access to computers before then, but 9 years ago was when I got my first gaming computer. I bought the n52 shortly after getting my computer and never looks back. To me, you're crazy if you don't use some type of ergonomic gamepad as it's much easier and more comfortable to game on than any keyboard. Don't try to say it doesn't have enough buttons, I used to be a main raider in a world top 5% World of Warcraft guild until I quit the game at the end of the WotLK expansion. There are few games I can think of that require more keybinds that WoW.

Belkin partnered with Razer to make the successor to the n52, called the n52 TE. I never bought one because it was an epic fail and it's soured a lot of people to the concept of gamepads. I tried Logitechs attempt at a gamepad, the G13, but used it for an hour and returned it. The curve to it makes zero difference as it's not enough to cup your palm like the n52 and it had too many buttons on it to where I could not reach them all without moving my hand around. It also lacks a d-pad, which is very important to me. I used the d-pad on the n52 as extra keybinds and just used the center set of keys on the n52 like WASD or arrow keys.

Belkin sold the rights to the n52 to Razer after the failure of the n52 TE. Razer improved the hardware a bit, and the profile system and drivers a LOT, and released what was called simply the Razer Nostromo. The n in the n52 stands for Nostromo. I did purchase and use one of those for a couple years, but had to sell it last year when money was tight. I went back and used my old Belkin n52 that I never got rid of. That brings me back to the Razer Tartarus. It's been out for a while but I never considered it because they took the d-pad away. I just find trying to use my thumb to move around to not be as accurate or precise as what I am used to with my fingers. The Razer Nostromo had a removable thumb stick in the center of the d-pad so you could use it which ever way you wanted. But the n52 was old, and slow, and resolved myself to simply learn how to flick the thumbs stick to use it for regular keybinds.

I got a pleasant surprise when I got the Tartarus fired up, the thumb stick actually sits on 8 small key caps. Meaning I can easily use it for regular key binds. I simply disabled the keys on the angles and just use the main 4 keys that are up, left, right and down on the thumb stick. Which is what I wanted as I only ever used 4 keybinds on the d-pad of my n52. Using keybinds on the thumbstick is significantly quicker than the d-pad I was used to, which is nice but it does lead to one small problem. There is almost zero throw distance and it's very sensitive. So I find my self activating the same action twice or activating one of the other keybinds as well on occasion. But I feel confident that this is something I can adjust to with use.

The thumb button that sits above the thumbstick is much easier and quicker to press than the n52 and the button below the thumbstick has been moved up closer to the thumbstick. This actually makes it useful as a keybind whereas the old one was wasted because it never got used. The main keys are nice and quiet membrane keys with a short and responsive throw distance. Also, the hand rest can be adjusted now if you want it to sit further back, like for people with long fingers.

That's it for now. I'll be back in a week to update this post with information on how I have adjusted to my new hardware.
**Note** Yes I know Razer also has the Orbweaver, but it's design is change from the layout from the n52 that I am used to. The Orbweaver suffers from the same problem the G13 does, in that it has so many buttons that I can not reach them all without moving my hand. It's also mechanical and out of my price range.



***Update after 1 week of use***

Once again I want to start with the G510s. The actual keyboard layout is exactly the same as the G15 I replaced, but there was still a slight learning curve to get used to the G510s. It took several days for me to figure it out but the reason for it is the G510s sits a quarter inch lower in the back than the G15. But it's enough to be noticeable. 

Other than that, it's been great. I mentioned the new media keys before but didn't go into much detail. On the G15 the media keys surrounded the area for the LCD display, and their quality was junk. Just cheaply made and poorly thought out. The volume controls were often slow to respond, which resulted in raising the volume up or down more than I intended. With the new media keys set above the numpad, they are more like real keyboard keys in their quality/feel and the volume control as a scroll wheel is a much better solution.

Next we come to the G502. I actually have to backtrack one of my previous negative comments. I said before that the mouse wheel had to stiff an activation for scrolling when paired with such a slick material as the wheel is solid metal. Linus ended up having the same complaint in his video. While I think that a better design choice would have been to coat it in rubber, I've actually have gotten used to it and have no problems with it now. Also, now that I think about it, any rubber coating would wear off over time, so I actually have no issues with the mouse wheel now.

The only thing I wish was different is I would like to programmable buttons on top instead of just one. That way my DPI up and down is 100% out of the way and I can use all the side buttons for in game controls. I honestly feel they could have moved the lock for the free wheel to in front of the mouse wheel and put a second programmable button behind the mouse wheel in it's place.

Last we come to the Razer Tartarus. It's quality is nothing short of stellar. Using the thumbstick has become more natural. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. The thumbstick responds much quicker, but using a dpad was more accurate. But I still feel that with more use I'll become as proficient with the thumbstick as I was with the dpad that I used for 9 years.
 

[TheSLSAMG]

Is the G502 good for large hands?

[jmaster299]

Is the G502 good for large hands?

I don't have large hands, so I can't be certain. But one thing I forgot to mention is it is good for a claw grip, which is how I've always naturally played.

[LancerBG]

Holding off all mouse buys till I get my eyes on the G90

[jmaster299]

Holding off all mouse buys till I get my eyes on the G90

The G90 is an entry level version of the already cheap and basic G100. Also, the G90 supposedly will only be available in China and is already listed on the Chines Logitech page.

http://gaming.logitech.com.cn/zh-cn/product/g90-optical-gaming-mouse

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/137594-logitech-g90-a-g9g9x-successor/

[atrash]

TheSLSAMG, on 21 Apr 2014 - 2:00 PM, said:

Is the G502 good for large hands?

 

That G502 is almost as big as the old G500 from what I've seen, so I'd say it is good for large hand.

[jmaster299]

That G502 is almost as big as the old G500 from what I've seen, so I'd say it is good for large hand.

The G500 is based off the Mx518 that I am replacing. Putting my G502 and Mx518 side by side, the Mx518 is a little bit thicker/taller but the length is the same. The actual mous body is technically smaller on the G502, but the main left and right mouse keys extend past the body of the mouse a bit making it's overall length the same as the Mx518. If someone has large hands, I would still caution them to find a retail store where they can put their hand on the mouse first. This is because of the 5 buttons grouped on the left side of the mouse. They are perfect for me, but if you have a thick thumb or fingers you may find yourself pushing buttons when you don't want to.

[Epitome]

Is the g502 accurate?

[maxvons]

Is the g502 accurate?

It doesnt't get more accurate.

[jmaster299]

Yep, I'll cover all that stuff in my 1 week review. I am also going to research reports I am seeing that claim that Windows 8.1 has a mouse poll rate cap of only 200 hz.

[TheProfosist]

Is the G502 good for large hands?

It fits my average hand perfectly but there is some extra room left on there if you have a bigger one. Generally palm mice are better for those with bigger hands but it depends on how big large is I guess.

I don't have large hands, so I can't be certain. But one thing I forgot to mention is it is good for a claw grip, which is how I've always naturally played.

Yea I noticed that as well. By nature I am a palm user but this mouse does throw a slight claw grip into my fingers but it suits the mouse so it seems natural, especially with the concave left click.

The G90 is an entry level version of the already cheap and basic G100. Also, the G90 supposedly will only be available in China and is already listed on the Chines Logitech page.

http://gaming.logitech.com.cn/zh-cn/product/g90-optical-gaming-mouse

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/137594-logitech-g90-a-g9g9x-successor/

Yea that what it looks like to me as well. Itll likely be slightly smaller than G100s as well like what normally happens with the special Razer mice. If i remember correctly the G100 wasnt available outside asia but was made available with the G100s.

That G502 is almost as big as the old G500 from what I've seen, so I'd say it is good for large hand.

its slightly thinner but yes

Is the g502 accurate?

mmaaayybbeee?

It doesnt't get more accurate.

http://goo.gl/LIK3TQ

Yep, I'll cover all that stuff in my 1 week review. I am also going to research reports I am seeing that claim that Windows 8.1 has a mouse poll rate cap of only 200 hz.

Cool please do. Really can you link to stuff on that as I have never heard that, especially if the software can set it. Also 200hz seems odd since that not a standard usb polling rate.

[ShadowCaptain]

I have an n52te, I can't use it as my hands are too small If my palm is on the rest I cant reach the top row of keys, I tried using the bottom 2 rows for WASD but they are too set back and too low for me to reach naturally

 

I have been contemplating trading it in for the g13 as i think it will fit my hands better

 

Is the tartaurus or orbweaver more catering for smaller hands? or will I have the same problem that I have with the n52te

[TheProfosist]

I have an n52te, I can't use it as my hands are too small If my palm is on the rest I cant reach the top row of keys, I tried using the bottom 2 rows for WASD but they are too set back and too low for me to reach naturally

 

I have been contemplating trading it in for the g13 as i think it will fit my hands better

 

Is the tartaurus or orbweaver more catering for smaller hands? or will I have the same problem that I have with the n52te

the orbweaver is super adjustable but since it has another row dont expect to hit that top row without moving your hand. I find this fine as I put Esc, steam overlay, EVGA overlay, mic mute, and screenshot up there.

[jmaster299]

I have an n52te, I can't use it as my hands are too small If my palm is on the rest I cant reach the top row of keys, I tried using the bottom 2 rows for WASD but they are too set back and too low for me to reach naturally

 

I have been contemplating trading it in for the g13 as i think it will fit my hands better

 

Is the tartaurus or orbweaver more catering for smaller hands? or will I have the same problem that I have with the n52te

The G13 and Orbweaver are even worse, just read what I said about them in my original post. I have small hands, so if your hands can't reach the top buttons on the n52te, they must be really small. The Belkin n52, n52te, and the Razer Nostromo and Tartarus are all the exact same size and all based off the same original design of the n52. Razer has just improved the hardware and software since the bought the rights to the n52 from Belkin.

IMO, the G13 is one of the worst options out there because it's just beyond massive and lacks the ergonomic curve the the n52 variants all have. It looks curved, but it's really not, it's just comes to a slight angle and does not cup your hand at all. The Orbweaver takes it's base design from the n52 variants, but adds an extra row of buttons at the very top, putting them out my reach, and your's. It's also twice as expensive because it's mechanical.

[TheProfosist]

The G13 and Orbweaver are even worse, just read what I said about them in my original post. I have small hands, so if your hands can't reach the top buttons on the n52te, they must be really small. The Belkin n52, n52te, and the Razer Nostromo and Tartarus are all the exact same size and all based off the same original design of the n52. Razer has just improved the hardware and software since the bought the rights to the n52 from Belkin.

IMO, the G13 is one of the worst options out there because it's just beyond massive and lacks the ergonomic curve the the n52 variants all have. It looks curved, but it's really not, it's just comes to a slight angle and does not cup your hand at all. The Orbweaver takes it's base design from the n52 variants, but adds an extra row of buttons at the very top, putting them out my reach, and your's. It's also twice as expensive because it's mechanical.

You have another row on the orbweaver so dont even try hitting the additional button without moving your hand. I have a medium hand and thats how I treat it. and use it for what I mentioned in the post above:

the orbweaver is super adjustable but since it has another row dont expect to hit that top row without moving your hand. I find this fine as I put Esc, steam overlay, EVGA overlay, mic mute, and screenshot up there.

The other nice thing about the orbweaver is it is far more adjustable in both directions.

[jmaster299]

You have another row on the orbweaver so dont even try hitting the additional button without moving your hand. I have a medium hand and thats how I treat it. and use it for what I mentioned in the post above:

The other nice thing about the orbweaver is it is far more adjustable in both directions.

The Orbweaver will not help with his issue though. Having to move your hand to reach all the buttons is something he is looking to avoid, I avoid it just the same. Yes the palm and wrist rests are both adjustable on the Orbweaver, but for people with small hands you still can't adjust it to a point where you can reach all the buttons without moving your hand around.

[TheProfosist]

The Orbweaver will not help with his issue though. Having to move your hand to reach all the buttons is something he is looking to avoid, I avoid it just the same. Yes the palm and wrist rests are both adjustable on the Orbweaver, but for people with small hands you still can't adjust it to a point where you can reach all the buttons without moving your hand around.

like I said you can make it smaller so that you can hit the three rows that you have on the tartarus more easily without moving your hand. That is already better so then kinda ignore that top row for that aspect and put stuff up there that you only need to use every now and then and dont mind having to move a bit for.

To be truthful I just realized that I can actually access the top row with the way I have it setup except the 01 and 05 but with what I have up there I dont mind having to move a smidge.

[jmaster299]

like I said you can make it smaller so that you can hit the three rows that you have on the tartarus more easily without moving your hand. That is already better so then kinda ignore that top row for that aspect and put stuff up there that you only need to use every now and then and dont mind having to move a bit for.

To be truthful I just realized that I can actually access the top row with the way I have it setup except the 01 and 05 but with what I have up there I dont mind having to move a smidge.

That works for you because your hands are bigger. I've tested the Orbweaver, it is not possible to make it "smaller" to the point where you can reach the buttons any easier than with the Tartarus. You can move the thumb locations and you can slide the wrist rest back or tilt the palm rest up or down, but you can not move the palm rest any closer on the Orbweaver than you can on the Tartarus. 

My hand with fingers fully extended on the Tartarus.

 

 

My hand in normal gaming position on the Tartarus.

 

[Keel]

Belkin partnered with Razer to make the successor to the n52, called the n52 TE. I never bought one because it was an epic fail and it's soured a lot of people to the concept of gamepads. I tried Logitechs attempt at a gamepad, the G13, but used it for an hour and returned it. The curve to it makes zero difference as it's not enough to cup your palm like the n52 and it had too many buttons on it to where I could not reach them all without moving my hand around. It also lacks a d-pad, which is very important to me. I used the d-pad on the n52 as extra keybinds and just used the center set of keys on the n52 like WASD or arrow keys.

 

I've been super keen to get a hold of a Logitech G13 for some time now but its getting very hard to find one for a good price with it now being discontinued.

I thought about a Tartarus but I liked the fact that the G13 had a lot of keys, as I wont be using it for games all the time and want it mainly to focus on macro productivity events. Not having to have another "pad management" app running is also a plus as I have three other Logitech products that use the same management app.

 

Not sure whether to just import a G13 for ~$120 or wait and see if Logitech have something else coming out.

[jmaster299]

I've been super keen to get a hold of a Logitech G13 for some time now but its getting very hard to find one for a good price with it now being discontinued.

I thought about a Tartarus but I liked the fact that the G13 had a lot of keys, as I wont be using it for games all the time and want it mainly to focus on macro productivity events. Not having to have another "pad management" app running is also a plus as I have three other Logitech products that use the same management app.

 

Not sure whether to just import a G13 for ~$120 or wait and see if Logitech have something else coming out.

I stand behind Logitech in terms of quality, but I hated the G13. It's just impossible and uncomfortable to use. The keys vary in size and both the top and bottom rows of keys can't be reached if you have your hand set in position to use the middle two rows. Of which, the second from the top row is so wide that you can't even reach all the keys in that row. The thumb buttons and thumb stick are also unnatural to use. The lay flat instead of be up on the side.

That's just my personal opinion on it. When I first saw it, I thought it was going to be awesome. This was when the n52te was out, and I avoided it because of all the complaints about the software. I returned the G13 the same day I bought it because of how horrible it is. The Tartarus isn't perfect either, I much rather have a quality d-pad than a thumb stick, but the standard keys are a perfect quantity, size and set up. 

[TheProfosist]

That works for you because your hands are bigger. I've tested the Orbweaver, it is not possible to make it "smaller" to the point where you can reach the buttons any easier than with the Tartarus. You can move the thumb locations and you can slide the wrist rest back or tilt the palm rest up or down, but you can not move the palm rest any closer on the Orbweaver than you can on the Tartarus. 

My hand with fingers fully extended on the Tartarus.

 

 

My hand in normal gaming position on the Tartarus.

since youve tried it and I do not know anyone with as small hands as you i will have to take your word for it. it looks like your struggling to hit the top row on the tartarus.

I've been super keen to get a hold of a Logitech G13 for some time now but its getting very hard to find one for a good price with it now being discontinued.

I thought about a Tartarus but I liked the fact that the G13 had a lot of keys, as I wont be using it for games all the time and want it mainly to focus on macro productivity events. Not having to have another "pad management" app running is also a plus as I have three other Logitech products that use the same management app.

 

Not sure whether to just import a G13 for ~$120 or wait and see if Logitech have something else coming out.

I just cant stand the layout of the G13 and the ergonomics of the orbweaver are much better.

[jmaster299]

since youve tried it and I do not know anyone with as small hands as you i will have to take your word for it. it looks like your struggling to hit the top row on the tartarus.

I just cant stand the layout of the G13 and the ergonomics of the orbweaver are much better.

 

Other than the top center key, which is my forward button, all the other keys on the top row are not super critical where I have to press them all the time. They are bound to things like Tab and my Use key in various games. Stuff like that. For critical actions I rely on the bottom row, the buttons on the thumbstick and my mouse. But, since it's the same size and layout that I've been using for 9 years, I am very comfortable with it.

100% agree on the G13. I could use the Orbweaver if I had to, but the top row of buttons would be left for things like macros or simply not used in some games. But the G13 is hot garbage, no real ergonomics and the button layout makes no sense.

[jmaster299]

OP updated with 1 week review