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Intel is losing billions

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what you guys are trying to say is:

 

Intel's R&D is on their CPU architecture

 

THEN SKU's are created to create a product line

 

very little R&D effort/funds/time is spent on an individual product - it's the architecture as a whole.

 

surprised not many understand this

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what you guys are trying to say is:

 

Intel's R&D is on their CPU architecture

 

THEN SKU's are created to create a product line

 

very little R&D effort/funds/time is spent on an individual product - it's the architecture as a whole.

 

surprised not many understand this

 

I can kinda understand why some people wouldn't understand this, but what really surprises me is how many enthusiasts think the IT world revolves around gamers. And what really really surprises me is how many think big corporations like Intel or MS or AMD are making financial/product mistakes that can be corrected by *insert user gamer comment here*

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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and if you look at history farther past just 2-3 years?

 

if Intel is on a downhill, then AMD must have done a cliff jump. they've bled money constantly since the ATi acquisition. Neither of them were prepared for the mobile boom, but Intel managed far better than AMD did

 

 

Billions. Intel is losing billions. AMD lost and was losing millions. Huge difference.

 

Both of you should check out the post earlier in the thread that links to Intel's financials.

 

Their actual yearly PROFIT is around $10B USD. Intel is doing FINE! They're losing $3B USD in the Mobile division only. The rest of their divisions are making money hand over fist, and more then make up for the difference.

 

As much as I'm a fan of AMD, they definitely were, and still are, worse off than Intel financially. AMD was losing millions because their company, revenue, and expenditure are all far less than Intel. You need to compare total revenue to total costs to get an accurate indication as to which is "hurting" more. (hint: It's AMD... by a parsec)

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It's their own fault. They rejected to work together with arm years ago because they didnt see any future in it. 
 

 

I didn't think K chips take that much more effort to produce. It's identical to its non-K variant but with an unlocked multiplier... that's it.

Similarly, most chips within a bracket are largely the same... they are all just "speed-binned"... meaning Intel tests them up to the highest clock they'll stably manage and then sells them with the appropriate stock clock. As far as the VLSI level designs go, I'm not sure Intel produces more than about 5 or 6 different physical "Core" brand chips...

Lots of efforts no, the machines do the testing heard it from a video.. But with 22nm they get more dead or bad quality chips from a wafer, the quality control is really bad. If you didnt hear it, haswell refresh will be produced on new machines that should counter this issue. I've seen OEM chips with ridiculous stock voltages like 1.48V for a 45nm cpu >.> You're not going to get an unlocked cpu with such high voltages.

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Time to fire Will.I.Am and go back to German engineers that know what they are doing.

 

 

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Yea I know that. the 2011 platform is for design and that type of thing but i7's are not generally used by photographers I wouldn't imagine. i could be wrong though. I always thought that photographers would always use a 2011 chip. If I am then forget what I said. 

 

Photographer and editor here.

 

I have roughly ZERO need to jump to a 2011 chip unless I find myself struggling for 64GB of RAM and all those threads to make Photoshop my bitch. 

 

i7 non K is plenty of raw power to get through most things. Couple that with a Quadro or even 7xx card and you have great performance that can get most things done. 

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Photographer and editor here.

 

I have roughly ZERO need to jump to a 2011 chip unless I find myself struggling for 64GB of RAM and all those threads to make Photoshop my bitch. 

 

i7 non K is plenty of raw power to get through most things. Couple that with a Quadro or even 7xx card and you have great performance that can get most things done. 

That is interesting nice to know. I just assumed that most photographers use 2011. It is nice to here from someone with experience for once though.

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because it isn't that hard,  All companies R+D and produce for the best revenue source.  It just so happens that in this field the same products can be relabelled "gaming" or "enthusiast" (or in this case unlocking the multiplier and adding K to the name) to pick up a few extra sales.  My point is really simple,  Gamers and enthusiast make very little difference, we do not drive the industry (especially at the level of intel and MS), we do not keep anyone in business.  Even Asus only make about 13% of their products for enthusiast (GPU's and mother boards) with 78% of their product sales being laptops and tablets. 

Cough Cough, Nvidia and AMD. You really think that either company would still be around today if we didn't by their GPU's. Yes yes they do sell server GPU's and workstation GPU's but I don't think they sell enough to keep them afloat (correct me if I am wrong though). And yes enthusiasts, gamers and workstation users do drive the need for more powerful CPU's and GPU's. But it doesn't help when AMD only makes APU's now does it.

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Cough Cough, Nvidia and AMD. You really think that either company would still be around today if we didn't by their GPU's. Yes yes they do sell server GPU's and workstation GPU's but I don't think they sell enough to keep them afloat (correct me if I am wrong though). And yes enthusiasts, gamers and workstation users do drive the need for more powerful CPU's and GPU's. But it doesn't help when AMD only makes APU's now does it.

No, just no,  if you have to believe that for what ever reason then go ahead.  But it is a complete fallacy.

 

AMD have not returned to full profit and are barely breaking even with the console contracts. That is why they are branching into server territory (we don't generate enough income)

 

Nvidia on the other hand, you may as well have used corsair or razor as an example of how gamers are driving the industry. Half their business is GPU's and even they aren't relying on them for future growth. They are expanding into the mobile market. 

 

The fact of the matter is we are barely a blip on Intels radar, hey have no need for us and just like Microsoft there is probably an array of investors and managers that just wish they would stop wasting their time advertising to us.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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wait, they make mobile chips?! pretty obvious why its going bad. stay with i5 & i7 and everything will be all right

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Intel is now feeling the burn, they thought that x86 was going to carry them but Qualcomm is destroying them in the mobile sector.

No one is upgrading their PC but people are getting a new phone and tablet much much much more often. Intel needs to step up the game!

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No, just no,  if you have to believe that for what ever reason then go ahead.  But it is a complete fallacy.

 

AMD have not returned to full profit and are barely breaking even with the console contracts. That is why they are branching into server territory (we don't generate enough income)

 

Nvidia on the other hand, you may as well have used corsair or razor as an example of how gamers are driving the industry. Half their business is GPU's and even they aren't relying on them for future growth. They are expanding into the mobile market. 

 

The fact of the matter is we are barely a blip on Intels radar, hey have no need for us and just like Microsoft there is probably an array of investors and managers that just wish they would stop wasting their time advertising to us.

Well both companies are failing epically then because there is only one phone that uses Nvidia's new mobile chip and no one uses AMD's chips in servers. That I know of anyway. Maybe they should stop wasting their time on mobile and do something that will actually make them money. Nvidia must have made a huge loss from their mobile sector. And from their desktop GPU sector they I would imagine are in profit. It doesn't help though that consoles are keeping gaming behind with graphical technology.

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Well both companies are failing epically then because there is only one phone that uses Nvidia's new mobile chip and no one uses AMD's chips in servers. That I know of anyway. Maybe they should stop wasting their time on mobile and do something that will actually make them money. Nvidia must have made a huge loss from their mobile sector. And from their desktop GPU sector they I would imagine are in profit. It doesn't help though that consoles are keeping gaming behind with graphical technology.

 

Mvidia aren't failing and AMD for all their failures still have the trusty opteron in many servers + their newly acquired seamicro, they both just know they need to spread into more lucrative markets to remain viable.  If they were to do as you suggest and stop with mobile/server business then in all likely hood they will be dead or at least at the PONR within 5 years. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Mvidia aren't failing and AMD for all their failures still have the trusty opteron in many servers + their newly acquired seamicro, they both just know they need to spread into more lucrative markets to remain viable.  If they were to do as you suggest and stop with mobile/server business then in all likely hood they will be dead or at least at the PONR within 5 years. 

I didn't say either company was a total failure just that their mobile divisions were no successful. 

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They should just cut their prices on i5's and i7's to a more like amd range and stop wasting time with tablets and phones.

Yes, but If intel creates 100 I7 4770ks, then 15 to 30% of the chips are broken, thats why they cant keep high prices

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I didn't say either company was a total failure just that their mobile divisions were no successful. 

 

I only said these companies were moving into new markets because their current markets aren't sustaining them.

then you said:

 

Well both companies are failing epically then because there is only one phone that uses Nvidia's new mobile chip and no one uses AMD's chips in servers. That I know of anyway. Maybe they should stop wasting their time on mobile and do something that will actually make them money. Nvidia must have made a huge loss from their mobile sector. And from their desktop GPU sector they I would imagine are in profit. It doesn't help though that consoles are keeping gaming behind with graphical technology.

 

Which leads me to think you believe they should have instantly succeeded in those markets which somehow supports your earlier assertion that Gamers are driving the market.

 

I just don't see where you are going with all this.

 

Edited 12:04AM because I had issues last post.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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They should just cut their prices on i5's and i7's to a more like amd range and stop wasting time with tablets and phones.

 

If you mean to OEMs then yes, they should. If you mean to DIY'ers then I don't see that helping much. Relatively speaking, we're a microscopic portion of their profits. They're not wasting time on mobile at all. Mobile is the future of computing whether we want to accept it or not. Mobile is actually a very smart bet for future company growth. I can't imagine what Snapdragon processors net their company. Those chips are used in a large majority of best selling phones. If Intel could harness that success or build upon it they'd be sitting in piles of money

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Title.

Didn't they break their profit record three times in a row a few years back? 

To be honest I'm not worried that much, Intel may as well not sell anything and still have enough cash to last for a few generations. It ain't going anywhere. 

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The topic is about losing money in the mobile sector. They're making more than enough profit from other sectors to still have an overall profit. 

Intel is perfectly fine. 

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Billions. Intel is losing billions. AMD lost and was losing millions. Huge difference.

Intel has a profit of over 2 billion every year. WTF are you talking about. They are pushing into mobile right now and research heavily there so they can catchup to the ARM guys. They finally caught up and are actually better than the ARM guys in CPU since silvermont came out, but there is a lot more to smartphone SOC. They are licensing Imagination who has the most effient GPU in the business for their phone SOCs, but their radio is still lacking. AMD literally has nothing.

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Cough Cough, Nvidia and AMD. You really think that either company would still be around today if we didn't by their GPU's. Yes yes they do sell server GPU's and workstation GPU's but I don't think they sell enough to keep them afloat (correct me if I am wrong though). And yes enthusiasts, gamers and workstation users do drive the need for more powerful CPU's and GPU's. But it doesn't help when AMD only makes APU's now does it.

Nvidia makes a killing on GPGPU actually they sell a ton of Tesla's and Quadros.

Intel is now feeling the burn, they thought that x86 was going to carry them but Qualcomm is destroying them in the mobile sector.

No one is upgrading their PC but people are getting a new phone and tablet much much much more often. Intel needs to step up the game!

Except that Intel has a better CPU than Qualcomm and it's more effient. If Intel had a radio as good as Qualcomm, they would be done. Qualcomms CPU and GPU are not that special, but they control so much IP in the radio space that liscensing their radios makes your SOC too expensive to compete against them.

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Title.

Didn't they break their profit record three times in a row a few years back? 

To be honest I'm not worried that much, Intel may as well not sell anything and still have enough cash to last for a few generations. It ain't going anywhere. 

If people here actually knew what they were talking about we wouldn't even have a discussion. Intel has said at pretty much every keynote for the mobile division in the past 2ish years that the mobile division is going to be a loss leader so they can get into the mobile world as they jumped on the ship a little too late. They finally have caught up and now are aggressively pricing (cheaper than many ARM companies even) to get marketshare. Once they do that, they will command a similar control over the market like they do with servers and desktop/notebook market. Intel's forecasts for their mobile division to sell a record number of chips and to still lose a decent amount of money. They are extremely healthy and are using that to expand to more markets. They made the same transition to server and now they are doing it to mobile.

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They are breaking even/making a tiny bit of money. 

That's not losing billions.

 

Intel is actually making billions over all. Only the one department is losing money. But overall Intel is doing great and is still growing. It's worded a bit funny to imply the whole company is losing money though.

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Nvidia makes a killing on GPGPU actually they sell a ton of Tesla's and Quadros.

Except that Intel has a better CPU than Qualcomm and it's more effient. If Intel had a radio as good as Qualcomm, they would be done. Qualcomms CPU and GPU are not that special, but they control so much IP in the radio space that liscensing their radios makes your SOC too expensive to compete against them.

Yea I know they do and they go for like £3000 each.

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